Weight/body fat issues (under/over)

[Guest Metalhead]

Hey I looked through the AFI 10-248 reg that MMM was talking about. Is the MAW thing even around anymore? Guys are mentioning it, but I can't seem to find it in that regulation. It might be totally replaced with the new fitness test. Anybody know?

[C17Driver]

From what I was able to find through some searches while sitting the desk last night is that the MAW is removed for current personal. All new accessions still have to meet it, but once they are gained, they move over to the fitness test. Unfortunately, I couldn't find it written in a reg that way, it was s summary of the reg. So I'll have to keep on searching.

[M2]

Metal

AFI 10-248 implements Air Force Policy Directive (AFPD) 10-2, Readiness, and supersedes all guidance provided in AFI 40-501, Air Force Fitness Program and AFI 40-502, The Weight and Body Fat Management Program.

MAW was in one of the two regs that 10-248 replaced (can't remember which, I think it was 40-502)...so, bottom line, MAW no longer exists for AD, you have to worry about the tape!

Cheers! M2

[Guest HueyPilot]

Yep, only weight standard is 10-248, which accounts for your MAW standard required by DoD.

I'm a bigger type of guy, never been thin. I'd be in shape, but I've got one of those builds that just isn't conducive to the old AFIs. I had a heck of a time trying to stay out of the crosshairs...running daily and eating rabbit food. I was always above MAW, even running 4-5 miles a day, so getting taped was something I got used to for the last 12+ years. It sucked.

The Army actually had a more common sense taping standard than the USAF did. 18-24 was 20%, 25-29 was 22% and 30+ was 24%, whereas the USAF was simply less than 30, 20% and over 30 24%.

I was shocked to find out my old ways of being around 20-21% in the Army wasn't going to cut it.

I'm glad the old body fat standards are gone...they aren't very scientific, and were based on a body-fat norm.

[AFCS_Actuator]

What happens if you're "underweight" at your FC1? I was told that I was borderline for my height (between 6' and 6'1").

[Guest worldnaving]

Take creatine and workout. Creatine will increase your water retention. This usually gives you about an extra 5 pounds for the time that you are taking it. Working out is for the long term muscle gain.

[AFCS_Actuator]

Originally posted by worldnaving:

Take creatine and workout. Creatine will increase your water retention. This usually gives you about an extra 5 pounds for the time that you are taking it. Working out is for the long term muscle gain.

I'm not touching creatine. What I'm concerned about is if being underweight will affect me at my FC1.

[Guest comanche]

I'm sure det002 has a good reason for not taking creatine, and I would like to hear it! They have make and min weights for height. I'm sure you can get a waiver, but like apollo said hit the weight room, AT least 5 days a week. Heavy weights, low reps, positive failure, and only 16 min of cardio, but leave everything there in that 16 min, max intensity

[Gravedigger]

Hey, some of us just can't gain weight period. I'm 6'2" and 155. I tried the 5 days a week gym thing, but lost weight. I also tried the 4000+ calories a day, and lost weight. I am in great shape (100 pft), I just don't weigh very much. Some of us can't gain any weight, because we have no fat to turn into muscle.

[ 22. March 2005, 21:10: Message edited by: c17wannabe ]

[Guest worldnaving]

If you are not going to touch creatine than I suggest you not eat any red meat. Creatine occurs naturally in red meats and your body produces some as well. Don't worry its not an anabolic steroid. It just a supplement that for some people helps them gain muscle mass and in almost everyone adds water weight. It would definetly give you the boost you need to get over the minimum weight standard.

[AFCS_Actuator]

Yeah, but isn't creatine going to dehydrate me unless I drink gallons of water? I've heard bad things from people who've used it. I'm like c17wannabe, tall and skinny. The only time I gained weight was at field training, when I ate 5000 calories a day and worked out constantly. I have since lost that weight and am back down to what I was before. I'm in pretty good shape too, 90s on the PFT. I've been lifting weights and I haven't noticed anything. :(

[Guest worldnaving]

Creatine causes cellular water retention. It will give you a quick 5 pounds of water weight. Its not a real weight gain. However it might be enough weight to ease your concerns for weight standards. Some users claim that they also have quicker recovery times and strength increase while supplementing it. I personal have not expereiced that and don't like the extra water weight so I don't use the product. The one side effect to be cautious about while using creatine is high blood pressure due to the water retention. I would say that most people won't notice an increase. However you should keep an eye on it just in case because high blood pressure over a long period (longer than you would use creatine) can lead to tons of medical complications.

If you want a real increase in muscle mass than Diet is the key. I too was tall and skinny 6'2 135 at my meps weigh in. It took a year of working out and not seeing gains that I started paying attention to my diet. You probably don't actually need 5k calories. You should start by calculating your daily caloric intake and then add 500 calories a day. This should help you gain weight. I know that at my current weight of 220 I need around 3800 calories a day to maintain. I just add or subtract 500 calories to either bulk or cut. You should really read up on bodybuilding nutrion. Thier is alot that goes into a good bodybuilding diet. You need to eat alot of clean foods(not junk food)in several meals (4-6) throughout the day. You need to also make sure you are getting enough macronutrients protein, carbs, and fats (yes you need fats to gain muscle). If you want I can post a sample diet for you.

Also remember not to overtrain your muscles and get plenty of sleep. One day per bodypart per week is a good rule of thumb. If you overtrain it slows growth alot. Sleep is also when your body has time to fully repair itself which is how muscle growth takes place. So get at least 8 hours and eat plenty without overtraining. By doing this you should despite your current body type be able to gain about 2 pounds of lean muscle mass per month. That might not seem like a lot but it will add up quickly.

[Guest Apollo]

Fat does not turn into muscle. Muscles build and

fat can go away. Unless you are a woman, you can

build weight.

edit: and I mean that literally. You need low-

rep exercise and extra protein.

[ 23. March 2005, 17:22: Message edited by: Apollo ]

[Guest FCI]

Worldnaving summarized everything this guy says-

www.skinnyguy.net

Considering the business you're trying to get into, I'd make nutrition and lifting part of your lifestyle.

[AFCS_Actuator]

Thanks. Go ahead and post a sample diet. It is kind of hard being a college student that has to commute two hours a day, but I want to gain weight.

[Guest doctidy]

You have to be between 103 and 240 pounds to be able to fly. Why? For the ejection seats. There is no waiver for those numbers.

[Guest KoolKat]

I can't speak for every case (obviously,) but I was well under my "minimum" weight through every physical I've taken thus far and no one has ever said a single word...

Be a single pound over your max and I bet they scream bloody murder, but I haven't ever heard of this ever being a problem, outside of a possible disorder.

As for the ejection seats, I was in the "high risk" range of the ejection seat when I started Tweets by a pound. No one ever said a word...

But FCI is right, working out should be a part of your lifestyle... (I have to reference him, cause I'm a total hypocrit like that!)

[usaf36031]

Howdy,

I just got back from Brooks for my class I phys and everything seems to have gone well, but I do have one concern that I was hoping one of the flight docs could answer.

I've always been thin but very healthy and active. I'm 5' 8" and a half and I weighed in at 124 lbs. (I blame it partly on the empty stomach ;) Which is under the minimum on the weight chart for the AF PFT tests that I take at my Det. Up until then i've always passed weight, but it's been close.

When I left brooks the flight surgeon seemed optomistic and told me everything looked good. He made a joking crack about me not "bustin my weight anytime soon" and then proceeded to ask if I run a lot, he didn't seem concerned about it.

I guess my question is, is AETC going to get my results and DQ me for weight or can a flight surgeons examination for my Class I at Brooks and assessment of me and healthy pass me?

If the worst happens, I assume this is waiverable? I've since put on around 4 lbs and could probably pass today if I had to.

Thanks.

[Guest P27:17]

Good morning 36031,

AFI 48-123 A7.29.3.1.1. references the minimum weight for IFC 1...basically no less than 103 lbs. Your hefty 124 lbs. is also within the Attachment 16 standards...

Good luck

[Guest Detzel]

So I'm going in for my FC1 soon, and I'm way over my max weight. Thing is, I'm not fat, I carry a lot of lean mass. However, I don't think I'm going to tape within regs either. I have rather large obliques from years of kickboxing, and I don't have a gigantic neck to offset it. I went and got hydrostaticly weighed and my actual body fat % is 15. When I use the goofy tape method that they use I come in over 20. Now given another month or so I can get down to under my max weight. (I don't know if I'll ever tape under, I'm just not built for it.)

Now I know my hydro test means nothing to them, as it states right in the reg no other method can be used other than the meaningless neck / waist thing.

My question is, if I bust the weight / body fat, am I just done? Lose my slot? Or will they do the rest of the physical and tell me I have to come back when I'm under? How will this work? What should I do? Tell them up front and ask to move my physical out or go in and see how it goes?

BTW, this is for a Guard slot, and I am an enlisted member of the unit.

Thanks!

[ 01. November 2006, 12:49: Message edited by: Detzel ]

[Guest P27:17]

At this time, Brooks does not do the taping for BFM. You'll get the various height measurements and a weight. The big thing they look at is weight in relation to ejection seat aircraft...can't exceed 240 lbs. It may be beneficial and save some time after your IFC 1, if you have your BFM accomplished at your unit to ensure you meet the AFI 48-123, volume 2, attachment 4 criteria and have it attached to your physical when it's submitted to AETC.

Good luck

[Guest Detzel]

Thanks for the input. This IFC1 is being done at my unit and I am well under 240. Now you say to have the BFM done after the IFC1. Is that to say the BFM isn't usually done as a part of the IFC1? In other words, are you telling me I have nothing to worry about on the IFC1 becasue they aren't even going to tape me during that?

I will not be under my max weight at the IFC1. (It's in 2 days.) I may tape under, I may not. But within a few weeks to a month I will be under max weight.

Thanks.

[Guest P27:17]

I made an assumption and thought you were going to Brooks...sorry.

I (opinion) think it would be a good idea for your unit to accomplish the BFM at the time of the exam just in case AETC would want it before making the certification recommendation...a "lead turn" kind of thing...otherwise you can see if the FSO will do one as part of the exam, if not, if AETC will even ask for it.

It's just a time saver...

[Guest Detzel]

Thanks again. I did the IFC1 today and they did the BFM. As it turns out I was psyching myself out over nothing as I taped under the max. Overall the IFC1 couldn't have gone any better. Perfect vision, hearing, EKG... all of it was right on.

So for anyone else who is wondering, the max weight and BFM are accomplished during the IFC1. (At least in my case they were.)

Thanks.

[Guest Tertle]

Well, if I were following the height vs. weight chart used by the AF, the last time I would have been under the mark for my height woulId have been about 10th grade. I haven't had a problem with passing when they use the 'tape measure' test on me, but it is a little too close for comfort.

Let me say that I am in no way over weight in terms of bodyfat, but I'm really into lifting and my obliques have steadily been getting bigger as I continue to lift, and therefore bringing me closer and closer to the "unacceptable" range of tape measure test results.

So, my question: Is there some other form of test just in case I do in fact go over the line? I know there are options in the civilian world for measuring body fat such as calipers or the water submersion test, but are those options in the AF or would I be SOL? I guess I could just stop lifting and hope that I lose some muscle mass but that is the last option. I would obviously do it if I had to. For those wondering I'm about 5'10 and my weight hovers around 215-220

Thanks.

PS- I wasn't sure whether or not to put this in the medicine section or not, so it ended up in here.

Edit: I should say that this is not for a flight physical or AD physical. I am still in ROTC and I got a random email from a cadre member last week reminding me I need to be within weight standards.

Edited August 3, 2007 by Tertle