Hearing information (H1, H2, H3, testing, waivers)

[Guest F16PilotMD]

In general, if you "fail" your hearing test you get to re-do it up to two more times. These are done after 14hours of "quiet" (no loud noise, etc). If you "pass", you're good to go. If you don't pass, your baseline needs to be reset. This is done by audiology and they may want to see you or they may just do it based upon your record. If you "fail" so badly that they can't do that, you require waiver.

Now, the IFC-1 is a bit different. There is no reseting your baseline to my knowledge. I think you either pass or you don't. Re-doing the IFC-1 is not something I have ever encountered so I'm not 100% sure about that.

Chances are, if it's only been 2-3 years since your first one, your ears are fine. If your ears are changing that fast already in life, your chances of flying are slim. Make sure you are in a quiet environment the day prior...no rock concerts, jet noise, etc.

[Guest Astrozeke]

I recently checked on the results of my ROTC DoDMERB physical. It said that I am "Commission Qualified", but that my hearind does not meet PPQ or PNQ standards. Is this the end of my dream to fly for the Air Force? Or is there the possibility of a waiver? My test wasnt even conducted in a sound proof room. I think that demands a re-test. Any advice/opinions? Thanks in advance.

-Daniel

[Whitman]

ask your det to set up a re test

[Gravedigger]

I hear that! lol. Yeah, talk to your det. Several people I know, including myself, have had problems with that test. The dude forgot to shut the door all the way for my test and proceeded to talk to a friend right next to the booth. Luckily I caught his blunder and held the door shut. Also, if your det drags their feet, go ahead and call any military base and set up an appointment yourself. Good luck man!

[Guest sully74]

A few more hearing questions for anyone out there that might be able to answer.

I was resently selected for a nav position with an ANG unit. During the weekend of the FC1A physical i was getting over a head cold and tested well into the H-3 profile at the 4000hz range. I was told to simply get it retested in a few weeks and we'd go from there.

I retested with a local ENT and everything looked good, although i was close to the limits for the H-1 profile at 4000hz nothing looked disqualifying. Sent those results to the unit and they had me come back up for another test there. Well for whatever reason, i again tested well into the H-3 profile in the 4000hz range, i believe i came up with a 60db loss there. A good 20 db difference from what the ENT tested me at.

I'm scheduled for a full audiological work-up next week, to try and dispute that test, but i'm also trying to find out any information as to whether this is waiverable or not. I'm not really up to speed on the waiver process as a whole, unfortunately. I was told by the clinic this isn't waiverable, but it would be nice to find that in writing in some regulation to back it up before i give up on this.

Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[Guest sully74]

I had just about every audiological test you can think of performed today, and it appears my hearing is between what the local ENT tested me as and what came up during my FC1A. Unfortunately this still puts me into the H-3 profile because of a loss at 4000hz. The rest of the frequencies are well within normal, and as far as speech recognition goes i scored 100% on that part of the testing.

I've been looking more into the waiver issue, and have read that H-3 profile is waiverable, but can only find that for FCII and FCIII. Since, i can't find anything for FC1A my assumption is that it's not waiverable in this case, but i really don't want to assume anything at this point.

So the question i have, if anyone knows or has had experience with this, is there a possibility of a waiver, or is an Exception to Policy my last chance at this point?

I've been flying for i guess 8 years now and have never missed a radio call for lack of hearing it. I really can't think how this particular loss would affect the safety of flight as a nav, unless there is something at this frequency i'm just unaware of. But if anyone can shed some light on this type of waiver, or working towards an ETP, any extra bit of information would certainly help me out.

[Guest F16PilotMD]

I don't think you have any options for waiver at the IFC1 level. However, I'm not used to dealing with Navs. You can always apply for a waiver. The worst they can say is no.

[Bishop]

"Hearing, Hearing loss greater than H- 1 profile or asymmetric hearing loss requires work-up by an audiologist "

I was just wondering what are these H-1 levels, I dont have significantly bad hearing, but I sometimes have to have people repeat themselves, and I was wondering a good way to guage what exactly Is passable hearing is there some test out there? Thank you

[Guest sully74]

H-1 Profile

Definition: Unaided hearing loss in either ear with no single value greater than:

Hz: 500 1000 2000 3000 4000 6000

dB: 25 25 25 35 45 45

Can't seem to get the db values to line up with the Hz, but you can probably figure it out. I believe that's the most current information, from AFI48-123 dated 22 MAY 2001, but I can't positively say those values haven't changed. If you're worried about it, make an appointment with an ENT or audiologist for a hearing test and compare your results with the above numbers. As long as you're below those values you should be fine.

[ 02. February 2005, 01:48: Message edited by: sully74 ]

[Guest flyboyltu]

Hey, I have recently applied for and been sponsored for a nav slot. I just took my IFC1a and passed everything except my hearing on my left side. It put me in an H-2 category, the doc said this might me waiverable, but i need to see the ENT first. First what does the ENT do? And second, how hard is it to get a waiver for H-2 hearing for a nav position. There are alot of posts about H-3, but not alot concerning H-2.

[Guest doctidy]

Initial H-2 waiver, in all probability, is a slam-dunk.

[Guest kcmo24]

We seem to be in exactly the same situation except I am about 2 months ahead of you in the process. I was tested at H2 so I was sent to an ENT. There, I did another hearing test, a tympanogram, a speech recognition test and a few other little tests. They did a test where they put a bunch of static in one ear and I had to repeat the words that were said in my other ear. On another test, they put the headphones under my ears. I think it was some kind of brain stem or nerve test. Anyway, all the tests they did were no big deal and were actually a little fun. After all the tests, the actual ENT doc looked in my ears, nose and throat. He said everything looked fine and wrote up a statement about the results and stated that there was no disease causing the hearing loss. I handed those results and the statement to the flight doc and he wrote up a waiver. A few weeks after the physical was sent in, they responed and wanted a few things reworded on the waiver which I'm taking as a positive because I don't think they would put the effort into getting the waiver reworded if they were just going to DQ me for it. Well, right now I'm still waiting for results but I think it's looking positive.

[Guest flyboyltu]

I've been having trouble with my hearing test for an IFC1A for nav (UASF RES). I was initially DQ'd after an audiological eval, due to substandard hearing loss. My recruiter contacted AETC and was told I would be able to update my physical until the physical expires. My first question is, has anyone heard of this being done? Secondly, I got a new Audio eval done and the results are as follows:

LE RE

25 10

25 15

20 10

40 15

40 10

45 25

I had an MRI done and everything was normal, also my speech recognition was 100% both ears. What hearing level will this new test put me in, and is there any shot of it getting "qualified?"

[Guest doctidy]

You have to meet H-1 profile. The standards are:

HZ 500 1000 2000 3000 4000 6000

25 25 25 35 45 45

You didn't make it at 3000Hz in your left ear...you are H-2.

I don't know if they are giving waivers for hearing. The problem...there are 3 people for every 1 spot (Nav, Pilot, whatever).

[Guest slim]

how do you interpret the standards? Should your numbers be lower or higher than the standards?

[Guest Hoser]

Originally posted by slim:

how do you interpret the standards? Should your numbers be lower or higher than the standards?

Lower.

Hoser

[Guest brandonv]

Am I the only one who had problems with the hearing test? I consider myself to have a normal range of hearing, and wasn't too concerned when I went to take the hearing portion of the FC1 today.

But once they shut the door on the sound-proof booth, and you put those headphones over your head, it's so quiet in there that I could hear the beat of my own heart. Which, in fact caused me to miss several of the miniscule *beeps* that I was supposed to hear. If I moved at all, or even swallowed, that alone would drown out any of the other sounds in the headphones.

I don't know that I failed it outright, but the tech said I was low on the 3 and 4 (tones, I guess?) portion of the test, and that it could be earwax buildup in the inner ear (yuk).

Now I'm wondering if I need to see a doc and have my ears cleaned out and see if they'll let me test again (in the event that I did fail).

Just curious if anyone else has had any challenges with the hearing test, and what (if anything), they did to improve their score.

[Guest ShortThrow]

Heh.

When I went though the hearing test, I thought I was going insane. I kept hitting the button at what seemed like every half second. I kept thinking to myself that I am totally screwing up and I'm not really hearing the ghost beeps.

Turns out I did fine though.

[HerkNav]

I'm trying to cross train to pilot from CE and the other day I got a call back on my initial FC1. It seems I have H2 hearing in my right ear due to the 500 not being able to be heard below 30 dB. The doc said that it's not something I should need a waiver for, that I just need to see a specialist get an audiologic test and possibly ENT evaluation to get it cleared. Can someone please confirm/deny this and let me know how big of a bump in the road this may be? Thanks!

Matt

[Guest doctidy]

Attachment 11 paragraph A11.1. The H-1 profile qualifies applicants for Flying Classes I and IA, initial Flying Class II and III.

Thus, you'll need a waiver H-2 Assymetric. It will be up to AETC but I anticipate they will look at if favorably. Hopefully the flight doc will get you all the additional tests needed. He can call AETC/SGP if he has questions.

I hate when they are wrong...

[HerkNav]

Rage,

The flight doc said that it's not something that she thought they looked at for DQ. She referred me to go see an ENT guy and I'm waititng for the referral to come through Tricare. She said that she will write me up a waiver that should almost definitely get though. In your honest opinion, do you see this being a huge problem? Also, have you ever dealt with a situation like this, and if so what was the outcome?

[Guest doctidy]

Originally posted by Rage_:P:

... but I anticipate they will look at it favorably. ...

You need more than that?

[Guest paperpusher]

I went to pilot training with H2 hearing...I was a mx officer prior to SUPT. Always take it as far as you can go with Big Blue...the easiest answer is the answer you'll get, ie "you're not qualified"

There is a waiver for everything, just have your Sq/CC give you a little push...and get your ENT appointment done.

H2 hearing is usually waiverable.

[Guest ronmoyers]

I have had two audiograms done and my hearing in my right ear is DQ'ing me. I have a 50 at the 4000 level. Is it possible for a waiver for this? Left ear and all other freq's in right ear are great and the rest of the physical was perfect. Also, does anyone have any suggestions to help me pass this test on my next try(in one week)? Thanks in advance for the answers.

[Guest doctidy]

You need 45 at 4000. You are close.

No loud anything...no music, no headphones, no lawn mower, no powerboat, no skiing,...nothing.

Wear ear plugs for 72 hours prior (other than where it would be unsafe to do so).

No Aspirin or any drug that contains aspirin.

Read a good book...or maybe I should say, "read the good book" (never hurts to have the Big Guy on your side!).