Alcohol problems (etoh, waiver)

[Guest darkhorse]

When I was active duty, I had an etoh waiver. Foolishly, I embellished the dsm-iv test hoping that would get me out of trouble--wrong!!!

I was seperated more than 4 years ago and thought I was completely out of the service, until I received a letter of promotion just recently. I found out I am in the inactive reserves now. I want to fly but have had some drinks socially since I thought I was never going to fly again. My old waiver expired 2 yrs ago, but since then I've been reevaluated and only had 1 out of the 7 for dsm-iv. What are my options for flying now? Should I show the reeval or just say nothing?

[Guest F16PilotMD]

Huh?

First of all, what's an etoh waiver? Are you saying you were diagnosed as an alcoholic or what?

What is the dsm-iv test? I know what the dsm-iv is...but what test are you talking about.

I can't tell you what your options for flying are yet...not sure what we're talking about.

[Guest darkhorse]

Oh, sorry. It was DSM-IV #305 Alcohol Abuse

[Guest F16PilotMD]

I doubt you will be able to get a FC-I physcial with that history.

[Guest downinthegroove]

What would be the repercussions for a UPT Stud if they sought help for alcohol dependancy at UPT?

[Guest Bender]

Don't do that. Just quit drinking. If you know you're a problem drinker, that's the only answer. ADAPT is not going to help you in any meaningful way. In reality, going to ADAPT can only add further negatives to an already negative situation.

Stop drinking all together. Check out this site: Raional Recovery Be honest with friends if you have to, but going to ADAPT is neither necessary or desirable.

If you're looking for the book answer: Alcohol dependancy requires a waiver, as does abuse (they are lumped together in the waiver guide.) It's fairly easy to get one (however it takes time;) 80% or so over the last 5-7 years. That's if you're "diagnosed." Volunteering to it will make that diagnosis all but in the bag. The conditions of the waiver is "treatment" from ADAPT and aftercare, making graduating from UPT with your class impossible.

The only (realistic) answer to that question is stop drinking. The real answer to that question is not pleasant, even worse for a UPT student.

BENDY

EDIT: PM me if you have questions.

Edited March 27, 2007 by Bender

[Login Name]

Don't do that. Just quit drinking. If you know you're a problem drinker, that's the only answer. ADAPT is not going to help you in any meaningful way. In reality, going to ADAPT can only add further negatives to an already negative situation.

Stop drinking all together. Check out this site: Raional Recovery Be honest with friends if you have to, but going to ADAPT is neither necessary or desirable.

If you're looking for the book answer: Alcohol dependancy requires a waiver, as does abuse (they are lumped together in the waiver guide.) It's fairly easy to get one (however it takes time;) 80% or so over the last 5-7 years. That's if you're "diagnosed." Volunteering to it will make that diagnosis all but in the bag. The conditions of the waiver is "treatment" from ADAPT and aftercare, making graduating from UPT with your class impossible.

The only (realistic) answer to that question is stop drinking. The real answer to that question is not pleasant, even worse for a UPT student.

BENDY

EDIT: PM me if you have questions.

sounds like you know about this bendy...guess that's why you're a drunken poster?!

as far as stopping your addiction w/o seeking help. good luck with that. all the drunks i know when they went cold turkey had a tough time with it. hope it works out for you though. you'll be better off in the end though when you're dry...no matter what the outcome of UPT.

EDIT: dunno about how bad your dependency is. if you're a drunk it'll be tough. if you push it up a little too much on the weekend and do stupid crap...well, the drink will be easier to walk away from.

Edited March 28, 2007 by Login Name

[Guest pencilpusher]

downinthegroove...definitely "2" what bender said. As unpleasant as "cold turkey" stoppage will be think of the other worse possible outcomes if you don't stop...crashing a jet, article 15 for drunk on duty, commander identified substance abuse (which has no protections).

ADAPT is a good program for the AF to identify, provide substance abuse recovery (very limited care), tag and in some cases separate folks who cannot stop drinking heavily on their own. Try your best to stop on your own first, starting with no beer, no wine, no liquor purchases. Throw away or finish what alcohol you have unless it's a huge stockpile. Tell your friends at parties you've got something early the next morning, crew rest, reading to do later that night etc. You're creative, think of something before you get asked "Bud or Lite?" You can do this on your own.

If you find yourself unable to stop on your own, then disregard all my previous statements. Forget how it will impact SUPT and get help. Your life and others lives who may fly with you are not worth the risk.

If this is not you, then tell your "friend".

pusher

[Guest CrewDawg1]

Throw away or finish what alcohol you have unless it's a huge stockpile.

pusher

THROW IT AWAY!!!

If you're looking for the book answer: Alcohol dependancy requires a waiver, as does abuse (they are lumped together in the waiver guide.) It's fairly easy to get one (however it takes time;) 80% or so over the last 5-7 years. That's if you're "diagnosed." Volunteering to it will make that diagnosis all but in the bag. The conditions of the waiver is "treatment" from ADAPT and aftercare, making graduating from UPT with your class impossible.

WOW....they will waive anything these days. Try explaining that waiver to your future bosses.

Edited March 28, 2007 by CrewDawg1

[Guest Bender]

Try explaining that waiver to your future bosses.

Far from difficult.

WOW....they will waive anything these days.

Your comment alone, reaks of ignorance. Be that guy...it's fine with me.

BENDY

Edited March 28, 2007 by Bender

[Guest F16PilotMD]

Let's back up a little. That is all very BAD advice if someone truely has an alcohol dependency problem. If you do, you likely will not be able to "just stop". If you have to ask, it's probably worth looking into. I think it best to deal with this as PMs. PM me with some details and why you ask, etc. We'll go from there.

[Guest Bender]

Let's back up a little. That is all very BAD advice if someone truely has an alcohol dependency problem. If you do, you likely will not be able to "just stop". If you have to ask, it's probably worth looking into. I think it best to deal with this as PMs. PM me with some details and why you ask, etc. We'll go from there.

All bad (BAD, as you put it) adivce, huh? Okay.

No one said not to seek help. I said not to do it through ADAPT. It is no different than just going to AA yourself. It is no different then going to a theripist yourself (it is cheaper, I'll give you that.)

No shit it's worth lookig into. It's worth looking into when someone else said something, or when you missed something you were supposed to be too, or when you said to yourself, "I should stop doing that, I feel like shit." Thanks, probably not too eye opening to him/her.

PMs are definitly the way to go. UPT is a tough time to be having the issue come to a head. When I was in UPT, I knew a number of individuals that that could have easily found themselves in the same situation as the original poster.

Every persons different, right? Quit drinking can't be the right answer for everyone that had that question, right? Sounds like bad advice to me too...I'll go back to my coloring book...I don't have any idea what the f_ck is going on here...empathy is a truely difficult thing.

Dependancy & Abuse are VERY different...and asking the question raises a flag, however, "Let's step back a little..."

The answer is the same. Go ahead with you doctor babble...It leads to the same place and you can give the advice now or give it later. I don't care.

Don't drink so much, and if it's actually a dependance, not at all (although the AF does care, their answer is the same)...It's not good for you, you suck at doing it responsibly, shown in as many ways as you're willing to admit to. It would be better just to stop (below withdrawl consentment aside,) since you have a track record of not doing it so good...

Doc...I'll give you the withdrawl possibilities...which, no shit, could be deadly...so, the advice could be hurtful...However, I find it hard to believe that one that would suffer such a massive withdrawl would find themselves in the poster's position to begin with...

That's just me...and who am I to know?

BENDY

[Guest Hydro130]

Interesting stuff. I think that the Air Force (can't speak for other services, so I won't) needs to re-evaluate how they are helping folks dealing with mental health stuff, whether it's alcohol issues or whatever. Or, fix the negative perceptions that are out there about how people can seek help. The perception is that Big Blue sees you as either completely fine with no issues or you are a dangerous timebomb that needs to be ASAPly cordoned off. There seems little to no room in between...

This is why people who need help dealing with stuff avoid the Docs/ADAPT/Mental Health like the plague itself - they'll be branded with a damning & career-halting/ending scarlet letter, regardless of scale of the issue at hand.

I'll keep my example to alcohol issues, but other situations could be similar. By the time Amn/Lt Snuffy actually has to go see Mental Health about the issue, he/she usually is at a point where something adverse & documentable has happened, so the "all or nothing" stereotype is reinforced because those trainwrecks are the only ones Mental Health sees walk through the door.

What if, during a regular ol' PHA, someone said "Hey Doc, I'm concerned that I'm drinking too much. I didn't want to talk to my chain of command about it because I'm scared they'll over-react - what do you suggest I do?" Obviously, a discussion about usage/amounts/frequency/etc would ensue so that the Doc can make a proper diagnosis/recommendation.

But what happens to that info? I fully understand "it depends" on the individual, but what if the dude is very early in the abuse stage, and just wants some advice before it gets worse? Maybe they truly have no idea about options like AA or whatever. In such cases, how can they be assisted without undue spotlight and over-reaction? These are all just rhetorical questions, BTW...

People fear that any mention or hint of a problem will set off sirens and klaxons all over base, and so they hide it until something explodes - and then it IS a big & disruptive problem. "Damn straight I eat 8 servings of fruits & vegetables a day!!! Salads for breakfast, baby!" We all know the "right" answers for the PHA questionaire because of course we don't want any undue attention or documentation. But that's pretty messed up - how did we get to that point?

I would think that it's in Big Blue's best interest to help out concerned folks so that the issue doesn't snowball into the likely avalanche later on. But people are afraid any documentation of such things will be damning, regardless of scale. That's a horrible reason not to seek help, but that's the perception. Alcohol issues are the big elephant in the corner no one wants to acknowledge, why?

Programs like 3-3-2-1 or whatever are fine for prevention, but the across-the-board "stick" approach to rectifying all acohol issues scares people away from seeking pre-emptive help. That's unfortunate.

Cheers, Hydro

Edited April 5, 2007 by Hydro130

[Guest F16PilotMD]

Your comments on the perception of how the USAF deals with this are correct. But, like most things, if dealt with properly, the outcome can be good. I have had several aviators DNIF for alcohol, drugs, depression, etc...all back in the jet. In general, it's because they thought there might be a problem and spoke to me about it. DNIF--->treatment--->waiver--->go fly. Obviously, not always going to be that good but I'll take my 1.000 batting average for now. Being in AETC and SUPT while this occurs is tricky because that world responds to everything in a, let's say, unique manner. I hope this individual will contact me and we can help navigate these waters.

The reason I say that "just stop" is, in general, very bad advice is: (1) if you have a problem, you can't "just stop", and (2) if you continue on and allow a bad situation to occur it then becomes almost impossible for the docs to help you. You now subject yourself to administrative nightmare that you could otherwise avoid. I've been to this rodeo as a young pup fighter pilot and given the "pick yourself up by your own bootstraps" advice. After getting old, bald, grey and fat I then realized the errors of that advice.