Mental Health issues

[WheelsOff]

Just wondering if anyone (flight docs, etc) knows much about the "adjustment disorder" stuff and getting a waiver for an FC1. Are waivers considered on a case-by-case basis? Who determines if waivers are even needed? The flight surgeon who did my physical wasn't sure if I'd need one or not.

https://www.flyingsquadron.com/forums/index...st=#entry156180

[Spoo]

Look forward to seeing your package...believe my assessment of the odds of your success just went up.

I bet you are...

Holy crap - if any phrase ever needed a STS, this is it.

I can't believe I'm the first to catch this!

Granted, the thread has been revived from oblivion...

Edited February 23, 2009 by Spoo

[WheelsOff]

Just wondering if anyone (flight docs, etc) knows much about the "adjustment disorder" stuff and getting a waiver for an FC1. Are waivers considered on a case-by-case basis? Who determines if waivers are even needed? The flight surgeon who did my physical wasn't sure if I'd need one or not.

https://www.flyingsquadron.com/forums/index...st=#entry156180

Anyone? Bueller?

[WheelsOff]

Just wondering if anyone (flight docs, etc) knows much about the "adjustment disorder" (DSM IV 309.0) stuff and getting a waiver for an FC1. Are waivers considered on a case-by-case basis? Who determines if waivers are even needed? The flight surgeon who did my physical wasn't sure if I'd need one or not.

EDIT: During my iFC1 the flight surgeon and I chatted about it and she didn't think the whole thing was a huge deal and agreed I was fine (this whole thing happened years ago), but wasn't sure if I'd need a waiver for the prozac or not. I gave them all documentation I had regarding the issue including a statement from the doc saying that it was for a short time and that I'm OK, etc. Apparently my physical is at AETC level for final approval - just wondering if any flight docs on here know if they'll make a big deal out of it, when the flight doc at the MTF didn't...

https://www.flyingsquadron.com/forums/index...st=#entry156180

Any flight docs out there that can help? Thanks.

Edited April 29, 2009 by dml02b

[WheelsOff]

Just wondering if anyone (flight docs, etc) knows much about the "adjustment disorder" (DSM IV 309.0) stuff and getting a waiver for an FC1. Are waivers considered on a case-by-case basis? Who determines if waivers are even needed? The flight surgeon who did my physical wasn't sure if I'd need one or not.

EDIT: During my iFC1 the flight surgeon and I chatted about it and she didn't think the whole thing was a huge deal and agreed I was fine (this whole thing happened years ago), but wasn't sure if I'd need a waiver for the prozac or not. I gave them all documentation I had regarding the issue including a statement from the doc saying that it was for a short time and that I'm OK, etc. Apparently my physical is at AETC level for final approval - just wondering if any flight docs on here know if they'll make a big deal out of it, when the flight doc at the MTF didn't...

https://www.flyingsquadron.com/forums/index...st=#entry156180

Well just got word back today that I'll need a waiver for my situation...praying that I get it!!

P.S. I know I've asked about 169,000 times already; but any flight docs out there care to weigh in on my chances? I'd really appreciate any insight. Thanks!

[JD]

If a recent mental health screening uncovered a few traits linked with high-functioning autism/Asperger Syndrome, will a test for the FC1 expose the same results? Is it disqualifying and can it be waived? Would that be dependent on the symptoms? Nothing that inhibits social interaction, requires special treatment, or needs treatment was discovered. It is just something that was touched on, but I am curious how it will impact the FC1 if a diagnosis materializes.

[guineapigfury]

This is why you never go to the doctor. I go once a year for my physical, and then just drink myself healthy as required. If you can't see through the bullshit questions on a "screening" and see where that's leading, you're not smart enough to be a military aviator.

[Guest]

If you can't see through the bullshit questions on a "screening" and see where that's leading, you're not smart enough to be a military aviator.

No shit. I guess the screening actually works.

[rancormac]

No shit. I guess the screening actually works.

2.

Everytime I've been to MEPs I've been astonished by the number of young kids who have feared the old ladys working there to "tell us everything!". Everyone starts raising their hand -- "One time when I was 8, I got a strange rash that lasted for 69 minutes and I went to the hospital and I broke my pinky toe, do I need to tell the doctor that??"

Or, not that I condone drug usage, but "One time I was around a group of friends and 20 feet away one of them smoked marijuana for a few seconds and my recruiter told me to lie about it".

I think the process does its own job of weeding those out via common sense...

[Guest]

I have changed a few details to maintain anonymity, however the basics of the story are very real and did happen.

A young man decided to join the Air Force and contacted a Recruiter. He did well on the entrance exams and was motivated to succeed. He passed MEPS, signed a contract, and entered Basic Military Training (BMT).

While there, he experienced the emotionally stressful and physically demanding environment of being a Trainee at Lackland AFB. After a few weeks, he began to complain of chest tightness, shortness of breath, and tunnel vision, which are classic signs of Exercise Induced Asthma (EIA), a potentially disqualifying condition. He was counseled, evaluated, and treated for EIA. After a few more weeks, the doctors determined he did not actually have EIA, but was experiencing panic attacks and anxiety which subconsciously manifested as physical symptoms (a Psychosomatic Disorder). This disorder was triggered in BMT from a previously undisclosed mental condition.

About 3 years before joining the Air Force, his cousin attempted suicide. The cousin survived, and revealed she was deep in a gambling debt. His family supported the cousin and were part an intensive family counseling program for suicide prevention, however this had a strong impact on our young man. The suicide counselor for the cousin recognized that our young man was confused and worried from his family's recent crisis. The suicide counselor recommended he also consider seeing his own counselor.

The young man did see another counselor in the same clinic, who identified several other stressors in his life, including moving away from home to begin college, worries about the cost of college, and a strong fear of public speaking. After seeing the counselor for about 3 months, he was diagnosed with Dysthymia and Social Anxiety Disorder (SAD). With his counselor, they decided he should try medication (Sertraline/Zoloft) for control of his symptoms. After about 2 months on the medication, he discovered that the side-effects of the medicine were worse than his symptoms and stopped taking it. In another month, his symptoms and concerns had mostly resolved, and his cousin was also much better. He stopped seeing the counselor after only 6 months from beginning counseling and successfully continued his college education.

Because he felt that his condition was very mild, and that it was part of his cousin's support program, he did not disclose this to his Recruiter, nor MEPS. You might think to yourself, "How could he not know that he needed to disclose this information?" First, psychiatrists, psychologists, and sometimes doctors might not directly tell their patients their actual diagnoses because of the stigma and fear surrounding Mental Health. Further, patients often don't ask what their diagnosis is--the patient is focused on their problems and not the administrivia in a medical record. Finally, he was incorrectly interpreting the questions from his recruiter and MEPS to what he believed his own history was. For questions like "Have you ever had mental health counseling?" or "Do you have a history of depression?", he thought the answer was "No" because his cousin was the one getting counseling and he hadn't been diagnosed. He was only talking to a counselor because his cousin needed help and he wanted to support her as best he could. He hadn't been "prescribed" an anti-depressant because he only took some medicine on a short, trial basis.

As a result, his history of mental health wasn't assessed by MEPS. If it had been correctly disclosed, he likely would have required a waiver and additional counseling before joining the Air Force. He might have been denied, or if he was approved, he would at least have been more prepared to handle the BMT experience. Because of his failure to disclose his medical history at MEPS and it's discovery while he was on Medical Hold, he was administratively discharged from the Air Force without completing BMT for Fraudulent Enlistment. This experience also likely caused further stress and worsened his long-term mental health because he was suddenly out of a multi-year career, and wasted many weeks of his and the Air Force's time. Further, he won't be able to enlist nor commission in any branch of the military ever again.

So what is the lesson from this story? Disclose EVERYTHING. Talk openly with your recruiter, MEPS staff, and your family. Do not lie, falsify, or hide information. Do not attempt to interpret the questions your recruiter and MEPS will ask you--answer them as they are written. You may need further evaluation or counseling before you can live a rigorous military lifestyle. If you are denied entry to the military, it is very possibly the best thing for both you and the government.

Finally, let's pretend he had completed BMT without his Mental Health history every evaluated. How do you think he would perform in a deployment, or at a remote assignment like Turkey or Greenland, or if he was married and wife later divorced him? Do you think that given his history, he would have been able to successfully cope with these circumstances? We can't definitively know the answer to these hypotheticals, but we do know that the military would have never prepared him for it because he failed to tell them.

[stuckindayton]

When a waiver is submitted, the MAJCOM will usually disposition the physical for each category.  So, if you are applying for IFC IA, they will consider IFC I/IA/III/RPA and commissioning.  FC II only refers to trained pilots, navs and flight docs, so that doesn't apply.  I've never dealt with recruiters, but from what I've seen they really don't have a good grasp on how waivers are handled.  Let the system play its hand.  If you don't like what is offered, then take the next step.  But, don't do anything until then. 

[deaddebate]

First determine your exact diagnosis (or history of).  Is it Dysthymia, Adjustment disorder with depressed mood, Major depressive disorder, Unspecified depressive disorder, or something else?

If you can find your specific ICD-9/ICD-10 code, that will help greatly.

[matmacwc]

Involved with weapons and depression.......not a good idea.

[Sketch]

On 10/5/2015 at 11:08 AM, radicaldude1234 said:

Hi,

Was just told by the local flight doc that he was not going to recommend that my waiver for depression be approved. I was also reassured by him that I was still commissioned qualified, but the recruiter thinks otherwise. Not that it means anything on a flight physical level, but mental waiver has been cleared several times on the MEPS level.

I was just wondering if there was any recourse for me and if there was a way for me to go for a lower medical like a FCII for RPAs? Or if there was a way to challenge the diagnosis? And if not, a gist of what the medical process is for a non rated position?

Thanks in advance for any advice

Any follow up on your situation? Were you prescribed meds of any kind for your depression? I'm very interested to hear the full circumstances. Feel free to PM me if you don't want to post it publicly.

[matmacwc]

Sorry fellas, we don't want or need people with any mood/depression/anxiety/polar/mental issues, it isn't the place.  Go find something else, it isn't for everyone. 

[Duck]

Sorry fellas, we don't want or need people with any mood/depression/anxiety/polar/mental issues, it isn't the place.  Go find something else, it isn't for everyone. 

I thought you were going to say we don't want or need people with any mood/depression/anxiety/polar/mental issues because we already have too many in senior leadership.


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[matmacwc]

20 hours ago, Duck said:

I thought you were going to say we don't want or need people with any mood/depression/anxiety/polar/mental issues because we already have too many in senior leadership.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

Naaa, that would imply they can get in.  

[Learjetter]

Or...what 24+ years in does to us...

[Sketch]

On 10/29/2016 at 3:35 PM, matmacwc said:

Sorry fellas, we don't want or need people with any mood/depression/anxiety/polar/mental issues, it isn't the place.  Go find something else, it isn't for everyone. 

Everybody goes through shit at some point during their life, that doesn't necessarily mean they wouldn't be qualified to serve in the military.

[matmacwc]

On 11/10/2016 at 8:30 PM, Sketch said:

Everybody goes through shit at some point during their life, that doesn't necessarily mean they wouldn't be qualified to serve in the military.

True, but if you are not honest on your commissioning physical and something happens later, you will get no help and are in a world of hurt. 

Edited November 12, 2016 by matmacwc

[Sketch]

On 11/11/2016 at 8:53 AM, matmacwc said:

True, but if you are not honest on your commissioning physical and something happens later, you will get no help and are in a world of hurt. 

Noted.

[cleared_hot]

As a supervisor, are there options to offer a winged/current/qualified, PRP-coded individual who may benefit from therapy or counseling besides the chaplain?  Looking for either confidential options or ones sanctioned by the Commander/Competent Medical Authority that, in both cases, would not violate regulation or invoke a determination of medical unfitness or unsuitability for continued service.

[magnetfreezer]

As a supervisor, are there options to offer a winged/current/qualified, PRP-coded individual who may benefit from therapy or counseling besides the chaplain?  Looking for either confidential options or ones sanctioned by the Commander/Competent Medical Authority that, in both cases, would not violate regulation or invoke a determination of medical unfitness or unsuitability for continued service.

Military One Source doesn't keep records and will meet off base if needed; they are not 100℅ confidential in the sense they have to report if you are suicidal or threatening to harm others. However, they only have a limited number of sessions IIRC.

If the concern with chaplains is the religious part, they will counsel without pushing religion if that's what you want; many have professional counseling training as well.

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[LookieRookie]

4 hours ago, magnetfreezer said:

Military One Source doesn't keep records and will meet off base if needed; they are not 100℅ confidential in the sense they have to report if you are suicidal or threatening to harm others. However, they only have a limited number of sessions IIRC.

If the concern with chaplains is the religious part, they will counsel without pushing religion if that's what you want; many have professional counseling training as well.

Sent from my XT1254 using Baseops Network Forums mobile app
 

@cleared_hot

Military One Source says this to you:

"Air Force personnel are read the following additional statement regarding the Personnel Reliability Program selfreporting requirement: “As a Personnel Reliability Program certified or administrative qualified member, you are responsible to self-notify your Certifying Official of any behavior or circumstances that may or could reduce effectiveness or capability in your job performance, safety or personal reliability. This includes your physical and mental wellness, dependability, or financial or legal concerns. You are also required to self-notify prior to any health care evaluation or treatment, whether military or private that you are a Personnel Reliability Program individual. Failure to make notification may cast doubt on your reliability and violates DoD and United States Air Force policy in DoD Regulation 5210.42.”"

 

I'm not saying they would tattle on you, but if they find out you're PRP you never know.

 

https://download.militaryonesource.mil/12038/MOS/MOS_PPTS/MOS-SlideDeck-1_Intro.pdf

 

Edited January 6, 2017 by LookieRookie

[guineapigfury]

6 hours ago, cleared_hot said:

As a supervisor, are there options to offer a winged/current/qualified, PRP-coded individual who may benefit from therapy or counseling besides the chaplain?  Looking for either confidential options or ones sanctioned by the Commander/Competent Medical Authority that, in both cases, would not violate regulation or invoke a determination of medical unfitness or unsuitability for continued service.

MFLAC, call A&FRC for contact info.  They're confidential, don't keep records of any kind and most people I know who've used them (including myself) would recommend.