Mental Health issues

[Guest WannaGoGuard]

I have a fairly unique question...

I have been healthy my whole life, and currently hold a 1st class medical certificat, Private Pilot Certificate, and have never had any history of mental illness... however, I went to college as a freshman last fall and had some problems adjusting to living away, then on top of everything my girlfriedn who I had been with for 2 years broke up with me. I left the school because I didn;t like the flight program. I then attended a community college near my house and went to see a psychiatrist to see if I had anything wrong with me. He concludd that I just had an adjustment disorder and I asked him if i could go on medication, and he said yes so we did. I stopped flying while on the meds do to FAA Regulations, but stopped taking the meds after 4 months. I was feeling a lot better and found out that I am not disqualified from flying, because I have been off of the meds for 3 months and took them for less than 6 months as statd in the FAR's.

Does anyone know if this will prevent me from ever getting a flight slot? and what the Military regulations are n this subject?

[Guest KoolKat]

Wanna, I'm no doctor, but....for what it's worth to you...

"adjusment disorder?" Never heard of such a thing, maybe like home sick or my girlfriend broke up with me sick, but "adjustment disorder?" Huh?

There is 99.9% chance that your not ****ed up (I don't know you, so there is some chance you are,) but I think you probably just had a bad spell, decided you needed to talk to someone professionally about it, and the ****er put you an MAOI or some shit you didn't need because that what they do to solve problems. (Not trying to be mean, but...)Just be a big boy from now on and solve them yourself from now on.

Forget about that shit, get that paperwork from that doctor, burn it, find a new girlfriend, don't take that shit anymore and don't tell anyone you did in the first place.

Just a rough patch, likely a mistake for listening to a psychiatrist when there isn't anything wrong it you. Your fine, a few dollars lighter, but...you should have no problems due it this "incident."

[Guest doctidy]

Wow...how do you follow that reply.

Adjustment disorder is when "a rough patch" in life affects someone just a little more than "a bad spell".

I think it will cause you some problems getting a flight slot. Adjustment disorders over 60 days are disqualifying. If you were already a trained AF asset, we'd be able to get you a waiver...but initial training is a different story. Odds? Best guess is 60/40 against.

Oh, and if you want to burn the doctors medical records and lie...your call.

Glad you are doing better. Best of luck!

[Guest SadbutTrue]

lol...

"adjustment disorder" sounds pretty BS to me. Just a personality trait, nothing more. Not like you're schizophrenic. Or are you?

[Guest F16PilotMD]

Wanna, this is the waiver guide. Nothing different from Rage's input above. I would agree that this history will likely cause you some difficulty with your IFC-1.

Off the record, my thoughts on "burning the evidence"...

Many, many primary care docs in the civilian world prescribe drugs for "depression" and the like very liberally. That may be good. It may be bad. I don't know. What I do know is that it causes a mess in the military. This is common in the reserve components where they have civ doctors that have no clue about the military part of their lives.

Anyway, if your diagnosis was an "overcall" on the part of your doc and you went on these drugs unnecessarily...well, I can see where you might selectively forget that part of your medical history. If you were acurately diagnosed, however, I have a hard time with just "burning the evidence" and flat out being dishonest.

Let your conscience be your guide. Good luck

CONDITION: ADJUSTMENT DISORDERS

Updated 4 Feb 02 By FECN / Neuropsychiatry Staff

I. Overview. Adjustment disorders are characterized by the development of clinically significant emotional or behavioral symptoms in response to an identifiable psychosocial stressor or stressors. The severity of the disorder is indicated by distress that is in excess of that expected from a given stressor or by significant social or occupational impairment. By definition, an adjustment disorder must begin within 3 months of the onset of a stressor and resolve within 6 months of the termination of the stressor or the consequences thereof. Stressors may be single, multiple, recurrent, or chronic. Adjustment disorders may be either acute or chronic. Chronic Adjustment Disorders are characterized by persistence of symptoms for 6 months or longer in response to an enduring stressor or its consequences.

If the disturbance meets the criteria for another Axis I disorder or is an exacerbation of a preexisting Axis I or II disorder, the diagnosis of adjustment disorder should not be used. If the symptoms represent Bereavement, the diagnosis of Adjustment Disorder should not be used. Adjustment disorders are characterized according to the predominant symptoms. Recognized subtypes are: with depressed mood, with anxiety, with mixed anxiety and depressed mood, with disturbance of conduct, with mixed disturbance of emotions and conduct, and unspecified.

II. Aeromedical Concerns. Adjustment disorders are one of the most common psychiatric diagnoses among aviators. These disorders are commonly associated with functional impairment resulting from decreased concentration, depression, anxiety, inattention, insomnia, fatigue, temporary changes in social relationships and problems with decision making. These impairments are all incompatible with aviation duties.

Note: If the adjustment disorder appears mild and improves in the first few weeks the flight surgeon may choose to manage the case with consultation from mental health. However, if the disorder is more severe and/or fails to improve in 1-2 weeks consider referring the case to mental health. Early mental health treatment can lead to early symptom resolution and possible return to flying status without the need for a waiver.

III. Information Required for Waiver Submission. If the DSM-IV diagnostic criteria for Adjustment Disorder are met, then aviators should be placed DNIF until the disturbance is resolved. If the disorder resolves within 60 days the aviator is placed back on flying status and no waiver is required. If the disorder persists beyond 60 days the aviator is disqualified and a waiver is required. An evaluation by a qualified mental health professional is required prior to waiver consideration.

The waiver package should include: copies of mental health evaluation and treatment summary, an aeromedical summary outlining any social, occupational, administrative or legal problems associated with the case, and letters from the aviator’s supervisor and treating psychiatrist or psychologist supporting a return to flying status.

IV. Waiver Considerations. The ACS has accumulated considerable experience in the evaluation and recommendations for adjustment disorders in pilots and navigators. Based on a 15 year (1981-1996) review of the USAF Waiver file and ACS Cover Sheet File, 60 FCII aviators were diagnosed with adjustment disorders of greater than 60 days duration; 41 (67%) were waived to return to fly.

[Guest WannaGoGuard]

Hey, well...

A few more questions in response:

-Is it impossible for an initial training candidate to get a waiver?

-If I was noticeably better within the 60 days, and the medication is found to be unnecessary, and the prescribing doctor agrees that I was out of free of the "adjustment disorder" within the 60 days with documentation from him, will this still be as big of an issue?

-If I was 18 when the adjustment disorder occurred, and apply for a flight slot when I'm 24 and have remained incident free, will a minor adjustment disorder be as big of a deal?

-How would I "burn recodes" and avoid the military finding out that I had this minor episode?

I can't expect every one of these questions to be answered... but every little bit helps.

Thanks a lot to all of you!

[Guest doctidy]

It certainly is waiverable. Like I always say, everything is waiverable. And the longer you go w/o recurrence, the better the prognosis.

As for the lying, burning stuff...its called integrity. Once you lose it you can't get it back.

[Guest WannaGoGuard]

Thanks Rage. I'm not one for lying, and certainly haven't come as far as I have by doing so, there was just a lot of talk about my "burning records". Regardless of what the current policy is on my condition I still plan to enlist in a unit, bust my ass doing a job such as Aircraft Maintenance, get to know lots of pilots, work hard in school, and doing whatever it takes for me to get a slot. Hopefully if I prove myself in that sense and remain incodent free, getting a waiver might not be as difficult... and if it is, I plan on being obnoxiously relentless.

If anyone knows the answers to my previous questions, it would be greatly appriciated if you could share your knowledge with me. Thanks again.

[Guest doctidy]

Look forward to seeing your package...believe my assessment of the odds of your success just went up.

[Guest KoolKat]

Originally posted by F16PilotMD:

If you were acurately diagnosed , however, I have a hard time with just "burning the evidence" and flat out being dishonest.

Let your conscience be your guide. Good luck.

[The bold is mine for emphasis.]

Like I said I'm not a doctor. I, as the person that originally made the comment, agree with this interpretation of my comments.

From my own experience, I had a girlfriend once that had "Seasonal Effective Disorder" (or waht ever it is) and she took a MAOI for that.

IMHO, who the **** doesn't. I suppose its different for everyone, but I have THAT, when it rains I'm more pissy then when its sunny. Does that mean I have a legitamite reason to be a dick to people, I don't think so; Do I need to take medication in order to not be a dick just cause it raining, no; IMHO, noone does, it's just a reason to take drugs and make your life easier.

I feel this way because I saw her with the drugs and without. In my assessment, she was equally a ***** with as without (minus the PMS contribution.)

I say, understand your situation. I've formed opinions that tend to bias my advice I suppose. If you feel the diagnosis was correct, take serious heed into it.

If you get your waiver, and attend UPT, you will be in a new environment with alot of stress to accompany it.

That being said, if something else personal happens (i.e. your girlfriend dumps you,) and you go down the shitter, you'll likely get out of your flight for the day, but they WILL NOT hold up your training unless you play the "ajustment disorder" card. (Which, thanks F16PilotMD, is an actualy disorder...although I'm now trying to figure out what isn't.)

Bottom line...go with F16PilotMD, be honest to yourself about what happened, how it was diagnosed and make your descision based on that.

What you end up doing is for you to live with. I wish you the best.

[Guest WannaGoGuard]

Hey KoolKat,

I actually appreciated your advice and encourage it. I have mixed feelings about my situation because I do agree that it is an actual disorder, but I also agree that it is often over diagnosed and medication is often times unnecessary. As for me, I don't feel that my condition warranted that diagnosis and certainly regret the medication, as it was not needed, nor was it in anyway affective. I have since undergone equally difficult stressors and have been fine in handling them. I think my biggest mistake in life was going to that doctor. The only reason I did go to that doctor is because my aunt has very strong connections in one of the world’s most respected mental facilities in the country. I knew I could see a doctor for free and I figured that no one would ever find out... so at the time it sounded like a great deal. However, I was wrong. Hopefully with this I will still be able to get a waiver that will allow me to fly. Either way, I am not giving up, and I am not going away until I am 30, and the only thing preventing me from getting a UPT slot is age. And thanks again for everyone's input and advice.

One more question: Will my condition and medical history cause me any problems enlisting in the ANG or will these problems only arise when UPT comes around?

[Guest F16PilotMD]

KK-

Throttle back just a bit. I think you are on the right track in general but this can and is more than just being a "dick". Oversimplifying this just makes you sound simple. I hope you never have to go through anything like this. If you do, your opinions might become a bit more sophisticated quickly. I'm not trying to bust your chops too much but...easy. I don't know what stage of life you're in, but it looks like you're a UPT stud...I been there...and I had the same vocabulary and opinions that you do probably...lived a little more now...trust me...ease back a bit.

[Guest WannaGoGuard]

Hey F16PilotMD,

I met with my recruiter to fill out paperwork and such. When it came time to fil out medical history we she said that I didn't have to check yes for being on medication as I was only on and of for a couple of months. During those few moths it was a trial period, and prior to any noticeable positive reactions I decided to take myself off of the medication, as I felt it was not necessary. At the end of there was a section that said "Primary Care Physician" and "Insurance Provider" and she told me to put that I had none. I asked if it would make a difference and if it would come back to haunt me later (particularly if I get a UPT slot) and she said no, because they won't be able to view my records if I don't list a doctor. Is this true, or should I ask her to allow me to change the paperwork. My previous doctor passed away just prior to seeing the psychiatrist, and I went to the psychiatrist without a referral initially. And I have yet to meet with my new doctor... so technically, what does this all translate into? Will this work out, or did I just unintentionally burn records and set myself up for disaster?

[Guest F16PilotMD]

There is no way for me to know if you've set yourself up for trouble. All I will tell you is this: Don't sacrifice your integrity just to secure a pilot training slot. Once you go through that door, it's open forever and you will likely worry about it forever. I stand by my last post. Don't stretch the truth. Answer the questions honestly and within their intent and you'll be fine. The questions are simple. The answers are too.

[ 30. June 2005, 18:28: Message edited by: F16PilotMD ]

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Originally posted by WannaGoGuard:

-How would I "burn recodes" and avoid the military finding out that I had this minor episode?

Kinda hard to do...you blasted this out on the internet in front the entire planet. It so happens that one of the people who has seen your post is the guy who will have the hammer on hiring you as a pilot at the 104 FW and who has posted twenty times that the worst thing a person can do is lie.

Originally posted by WannaGoGuard:

I met with my recruiter to fill out paperwork and such. When it came time to fil out medical history we she said that I didn't have to check yes for being on medication as I was only on and of for a couple of months...At the end of there was a section that said "Primary Care Physician" and "Insurance Provider" and she told me to put that I had none. I asked if it would make a difference and if it would come back to haunt me later (particularly if I get a UPT slot) and she said no, because they won't be able to view my records if I don't list a doctor.

Big picture, a single seat cockpit is no place for you if you have issues with stressful situations. You will find yourself in stressful situations constantly and they can get extremely stressful at night in shitty weather with people shooting at you and you realize you just overflew your bingo and there are no tankers available.

I have been in two units where a guy decided he couldn't take it and stopped flying combat sorties in the middle of the fight. Not cool for him or the rest of the squadron. Fear in a combat unit during combat operations is like cancer.

My advice to you is to be as honest as you can be and be realistic about what kind of environment you want to be in.

Good luck.

[ 20. July 2005, 06:29: Message edited by: Rainman A-10 ]

[Guest WannaGoGuard]

Hey Rainman,

Thanks for the info. I want you to understand that when I asked about “burning records” I was asking what it was… thinking that it was a way of getting a waiver or such. The context may have looked different but I was asking what “burning” was… and had it been a legitimate way to wave records I would have certainly done it. As I said in a prior post, I am not one to lie. That is why I told everyone about the paperwork I had to fill out. I know that recruiters can be sneaky and that’s why I ask all of you, because you have been of great help and have been up front and 100% honest with me.

As for my ability to cope…I am great with stressful situations. There was one time in my life where I moved away to college, and simultaneously my girlfriend of 2 years was having sex with my best friend (who was more of a brother to me). I don’t care if you are a very emotional person or a fighter pilot… that’s going to affect you. Also, like I said, the only reason I saw a doctor was because my aunt works with them and knew about my girlfriend and told me to see him for free. Being that he is running a business he told me that I had a disorder, when I reality I was feeling better not to long after. Then he told me there was medication that would make me feel better… and I went along with it. I however, took my self off of the meds shortly thereafter. As far as stressors… during my flight training my favorite exorcises and lessons were emergency situations: engine failures, engine fires, wingtip fires, etc… Not to say that flying a combat sortie is comparable to a single engine Cessna fire, but I certainly thrive for that type of scenario.

Unfortunately, it seems like things aren’t going my way. I’m not one to quit, but I feel like everything is working against me and it is all out of my control.

Bottom line, I don’t have any underlying psychological problems, I was a kid in a rough place that was unfortunately taken to a level it didn’t need to be at. I understand that these psychological conditions do exist, but in my case I feel that I was misdiagnosed. (BTW, is there anyway I can get a 2nd opinion that can counteract the pervious doctor’s diagnosis?). It’s hard when I know I am an average kid with an above average thirst for success who has constant barrier placed in front of the road to his dreams.

p.s. Thank you to everyone who has posted here. Your advice and information has helped me more than you will know. It’s great to see that you are all out to help each other.

[Guest snappy033]

I was diagnosed with dysthymic disorder and social anxiety a couple years back. I spent about 1.5 to 2 years on Effexor for these conditions. Matter of fact, the doctor later said that the dosage was not even medically theraputic, just enough to keep the withdrawl symptoms away. I've been off the medication for about 6 months now. Like everyone says, I think I was misdiagnosed and my doctor was just pill-happy. I stopped taking the medication once or twice but combination of dealing with the withdrawl symptoms and dealing with my first year of college were a bit too much to handle, so 6 months ago was the first time I was able to really get off the meds. Is this a show stopper for me to get a flying physical after ROTC? Will the doctors make a decision based strictly on my medical history or will I have a chance to plead my case? Thanks all

[Guest sleepy]

I dunno about your case. Good luck, though.

Rage, Jordan, F16PilotMD--

There have a been a lot of these questions lately. What do you all have to say about medicating behavior/moods? Not what the regs say, but rather your own personal, educated opinion.

I think it is bunk, but I'll spare everyone that disseration.

[Guest doctidy]

Snappy - we can only go by what you write, so lets look at it:

Originally posted by snappy033:

I spent about 1.5 to 2 years on Effexor for these conditions. ... I stopped taking the medication once or twice but combination of dealing with the withdrawl symptoms and dealing with my first year of college were a bit too much to handle, so 6 months ago was the first time I was able to really get off the meds.

If you needed medication to help w/ the "first year of college", what are you going to need for pilot training, or remote deployment to Alaska where there is no sunshine, or...

These type of problems are prone to recur. I think you'll have a hugely difficult time getting a waiver.

Sleepy - as to...is there really mood disorders that need medication? I'm not sure what you think. Are you saying that the whole psychiatry field is dealing w/ problems that could be cured by a swift kick in the tush?

[Guest Hydro130]

LOL...

I don't think that was sleepy's point, but I'm sure he'll be back on to clarify... I think he was just refering to those questions being a bit of a trend lately, and wondered what your guys' (Docs) general nuggets of insight are on the subject.

In the meantime, let me tell about the fantastic programs Scientology has to offer in lieu of those silly "FDA-approved prescribed medications"...

Oh, and can I get you some more Kool-Aid? Isn't it so goshdarn tasty?

[Guest snappy033]

The reason I stayed on the medication was because of the withdrawl symptoms. Thats the catch for me. Psychologically speaking, I was fine during this time but I had a heavy course load and a job, and didn't have time to sit around dealing with the 'electric shocks' and dizziness and nausea you get when you go off the meds... I feel like my medical history regarding this is kind of deceptive. I didn't have rainclouds following me everywhere for 2 years like in the cartoons, like my file might suggest. I was just stuck on a maintinence level of medication for a long period. Would I have an chance to explain all that to a flight doc or would I be at his mercy when he reviews my history?

[Guest doctidy]

snappy:

"I think you'll have a hugely difficult time getting a waiver."

Rage

[Guest F16PilotMD]

Snappy, this process doesn't depend on you being given the "chance" to plead your case to the flight doc. I realize--and we've all heard the stories--that it seems that way at times. Your case will be decided by what is in the record(s). Not by your opinion of the validity of those records. You really don't get a vote or comment on the medical record. Only the docs can elaborate on that. I agree with Rage, you will be facing a steep uphill battle.

Sleepy, I think you are confusing normal, daily human emotions with psychiatric pathology. I, like you, believe that the use of medications to "deal with" everyday life is way, way out of control. Everyone is on Prozac or something. That is absolutely NOT the same as "real" psych pathology. They are diseases no different than any other we deal with. They are real and difficult to deal with. I will piggy-back on Rage's comment...be careful how flip you are with this stuff. Even the "everyday" stuff is real and has to be dealt with appropriately. Just telling people to "suck it up" won't get you far. I did, however, think that way before my hair turned grey and fell out.

The soap container has now come to a complete stop.

[Guest sleepy]

Thanks gentlemen. Sorry if I came across as if to naievly suggest that there is no such thing as a real psychological problem. I know better than that. Those things posted here recently are typical human experiences. Adolescents especially go through a whirlwing of emotions, and I think medication does a disservice (for the most part) in our psychic development, or whatever the pointheaded intellectuals want to call it. Counseling is much better, helps us to "Know Thyself." Plato, not Prozac. Real psychiatric problems don't fall under this.

Rage disregard PM.

[Guest F16PilotMD]

"Plato, not Prozac"

I like that. I shall steal it, use it, and claim it as my own. Thank you.

(that feels like it needs a STS but I can't say for sure)