Motion/Airsickness (Barany Chair)

[Guest EN_STUD]

Not sure about the 10% washout rate for other bases, but for ENJJPT that seems a little high. Out of the last 4 Tweet classes, (about 100 students) there have only been 3 students, to my knowledge that have washed out due to airsickness.

From what the Doc here told me, ENJJPT's airsickness program is much more tolerant with students that take some time to get over the airsickness…damn lucky for me.

Someone from another SUPT base may be able to give some more insight, but the shrink here told me that at other SUPT bases, the aerospace phys techs run the airsickness program and its centered mainly on giving meds and some chair time, and with no progress after 3 times (pre-solo) leading to commander's review action.

At ENJJPT as long as you are showing some progress (pre-solo) then they will keep working with you. Shit, I have an encyclopedia worth of 4293's in my grade book from all my pre-solo airsickness episodes. Although, you won’t be allowed to solo until you have 3 airsickness free rides in a row before your solo ride. Post-solo is a whole different story. An active airsickness episode post-solo is an automatic unsat and a total of 3 total active airsickness rides post-solo creates a commander's review action...where the sq/cc decides based on your performance and progress with your airsickness whether you stay in the program.

I received several PMs requesting the audio track, but I was wrong on the file size…it’s actually 9MB so I posted it online instead. The track is about 20 minutes long and geared more towards stress/anxiety related performance issues, but airsickness problems are treated the same way since that is usually the root of the problem. Hope it helps someone…it definitely did for me.

https://media.putfile.com/SUPT-Relaxation-Track

[Spartacus]

I got actively airsick on my first two flights in Tweets. My IP's don't know this but I had stretches of airsickness all the way through Tweets. My first couple of rides in 38's made me a little sick and the first couple in advanced form made me a little sick too because of all the yanking and banking that the IP was doing. Here is what I personally learned: It is very mental, at least for me. Being nervous or not wanting to fly or not wanting the IP to fly will make it worse/happen. I had really bad airsickness but I never had to go so the doc or the chair. What I did is I worked very hard on my mental state before and during flying. I really tried to learn the sortie and I would pump myself up and even say in my mind that I am excited to go fly (even if I really wasn't.) If that only partially worked I would tell the IP, "Sir I am a little sick and going 100% oxygen." The IP would usually say ok and would fly straight and level for a few seconds to calm me down. Also talking to the IP during that time or even doing some checks to get your mind off of the sickness would make it go away fast. (You can only do this in the beginning of Tweets/T-6s though.) I thought that I had really bad airsickness and my IP's in the beginning really thought the same and were about to send me to the doc but because of how I changed my thinking I got through it and made it better. However, this may not be the best for everyone. Going to the doc is not bad and realize that if you get sick a lot but don't puck and just hide it that it will degrade your performance. Go to the doc and the chair if you need to but also work on your nervousness and thought processes before and during your flights. This is what helped me and I got through it just fine.

[Guest EN_STUD]

Here's a document I got from the Doc on airsickness prevention:

[Guest Ales39]

Hello guys,

could you please tell me what exactly do you do on the Barany chair? What exercises etc...

Thanks

[Toro]

could you please tell me what exactly do you do on the Barany chair? What exercises etc...

You don't 'do' anything other than sit there while they spin you around until you get sick. Then they spin you some more. Then they spin you some more. The intent is to get your body accustomed to it.

[Guest Ales39]

You don't 'do' anything other than sit there while they spin you around until you get sick. Then they spin you some more. Then they spin you some more. The intent is to get your body accustomed to it.

Thanks for the reply. I was rather curious what you do with your head. Whether it is pointed straightforward during the spinning or do you tilt it down or sidewards, close your eyes, then they spin the chair, stop it and you raise your head. Or is it just simple spinning with your eyes opened, head upfront like in an office chair.

Again, thanks for replies...

[Toro]

I was rather curious what you do with your head. Whether it is pointed straightforward during the spinning or do you tilt it down or sidewards, close your eyes, then they spin the chair, stop it and you raise your head. Or is it just simple spinning with your eyes opened, head upfront like in an office chair.

I only did it as a fam thing, so I don't know for sure, but if it was up to me I wouldn't move my cranium at all. Once you start spinning, moving your nugget around is just going to enhance the gyroscopic effect and make things worse.

[Guest ATB]

Toro (or any other pointy-nose dude),

My uncle (frmr F-15A pilot) told me a tale about an IP of his once turning the AC off and yanking and banking. That, combined with the G-forces and weight of the 'chute/bag/boots and g-suit at work, he said, induced active nausea on one (that he'll admit) occasion.

That was either in a -38 or in a -15.

I'll be the first to admit that I know absolutely nothing at all when it comes to military flying or what it's like to be sitting there when airsickness strikes, so you dudes that have puked your way through -Tweets or through Texans, please forgive my ignorance.

If you're a dude that doesn't mind things like being spun around, or even if you actually like being spun around from doing it in the past (like if you know how to focus on one immobile thing while you're being spun and prevent motion sickness that way), do dudes like that get airsick often or at all? Can someone mentally overcome the heat, the g-suit, the parachute underneath you, the shoulder straps and the helmet and think their way through airsickness?

Edited August 1, 2008 by ATB

[Toro]

If you're a dude that doesn't mind things like being spun around, or even if you actually like being spun around from doing it in the past (like if you know how to focus on one immobile thing while you're being spun and prevent motion sickness that way), do dudes like that get airsick often or at all? Can someone mentally overcome the heat, the g-suit, the parachute underneath you, the shoulder straps and the helmet and think their way through airsickness?

Your body will decide. I have never been actively sick in an aircraft, but in my first ride in every aircraft (T-37, T-38, F-15), I have felt queasy. By the second ride, that was gone. IMHO, if you try to 'think your way' through airsickness, you'll be concentrating on it too much, and you'll make it worse.

[Guest CharlieFoxtrot]

It has been my dream to become a fighter pilot ever since I can remember. But, I have a bad case of motion sickness. Extreme motion (such as roller coasters or pseudo-aerobatic maneuvers) set it off as opposed to long car rides or flights. How can I kick my motion sickness once and for all? Spin around a lot? Take a magic pill? I'm pretty sure that the minute the AF finds out about my motion sickness I will be kicked out of flight school faster than you can say "desk job". Any and all advice is appreciated because I'm a bit clueless. Thanks.

CF

[Guest Gregory Blankenship]

It has been my dream to become a fighter pilot ever since I can remember. But, I have a bad case of motion sickness. Extreme motion (such as roller coasters or pseudo-aerobatic maneuvers) set it off as opposed to long car rides or flights. How can I kick my motion sickness once and for all? Spin around a lot? Take a magic pill? I'm pretty sure that the minute the AF finds out about my motion sickness I will be kicked out of flight school faster than you can say "desk job". Any and all advice is appreciated because I'm a bit clueless. Thanks.

CF

Forget any attempt to use any kind of drugs. Also forget anything drug companies say. Bottom line, go out in a small boat on the open sea, and keep your attention focused on the horizon. Do no, I repeat, do not look down at anything in the bottom of the boat. Unless, of course, you are a fan of vomiting in front of others. Motion sickness is all about losing one's reference to their surroundings. So, don't.

Any old salt at sea will tell you, "keep your eyes on the horizon". Why? Well, sir, aside from the obvious weather watch, it pays to watch for pirates, and so on, which is why real sailors never get sea sick. They are too busy looking for trouble.

My best wishes for you sir, and keep your eyes peeled - on the horizon!

[Hacker]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A1r%C3%A1ny_chair

[Jaded]

Step 1: Use the search function (try )

They'll talk about this in the aerospace phys portion of pilot training. Bottom line: ~97% of motion sickness is cureable using the previously linked chair if you have the drive to work through it.

I wouldn't rent a boat.

[Danny Noonin]

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/pilot-health/20692-motion-sickness.html

some good advice here too.

[D-ron]

I got actively airsick on the first few rides and I was still getting mildly sick all the way up to midphase. If I can get past it anyone can. The best thing you can do is just not worry about it. You'll get over your airsickness either through flying, or with the barany chair. Bottom line is that they are very willing to work with you to get you through your airsickness and the only way it will stop you is if you give up or DOR. From what I've seen very few people washout from airsickness. Good luck

[swankerme]

I'm applying for OTS this July as a rated ABM. I want to go active duty (currently enlisted ANG), I want to be an officer, I want to be rated, and I want to be in the air. Despite negative reputation on this board, I think the ABM job sounds great.

However, I'm a puker. I always have been, ever since a little kid. Amusement park rides, reading in a car, turbulent commerical air rides, all have made me sick in the past. Now that I'm older (26) my tolerance is built up, but serious motion will still make me sick. Last year I went up with a friend in a small Cessna. He had to do a few stall recoveries - I quickly lost my lunch.

That being said, I would still love to be aircrew, and I want to overcome airsickness. I know people see flight docs about this and they have "the chair" to overcome it, but that being said...

Am I crazy to pursue being rated, knowing that I'm a puker beforehand?

[10percenttruth]

Honestly bro, it doesn't sound good. However, I have had plenty of students in UPT get over pretty extreme airsickness & go on to be good pilots. Your issue is that you're resigning yourself to sit sideways (or backwards) in the dark while someone else does the flying... Never a good recipe for someone prone to puking. If you're going to give it a shot, I highly recommend giving yourself a window & access to the controls. You'd be amazed how much airsickness goes away when you're the one driving the jet.

Edit: stoopid autocorrect

Edited April 5, 2013 by 10percenttruth

[swankerme]

Is it realistic to take dramamine on every flight until I get used to it? Does anyone do this? Is this even allowed? I know it isn't for pilots, but the crew?

[guineapigfury]

Is it realistic to take dramamine on every flight until I get used to it? Does anyone do this? Is this even allowed? I know it isn't for pilots, but the crew?

Not sure about dramamine, but TUMS and Pepto are legal.

[Odium]

Realize as an ABM you'll frequently be sitting backwards or sideways in the back of a hot jet with no windows getting bounced around during an hour or two of Transition (landings) at a time

[Techsan]

Realize as an ABM you'll frequently be sitting backwards or sideways in the back of a hot jet with no windows getting bounced around during an hour or two of Transition (landings) at a time

Very true...I'm not normally a puker, however sitting in the back as self-loading cargo, it wouldn't take me long. Especially when sub-stellar pilots are attempting receiver AR.

[Guest]

Not sure about dramamine, but TUMS and Pepto are legal.

Dramamine is not on the OTC nor approved Aircrew Med List.

Proceed direct to the nearest Barany chair and get cured. I was a serious puker, also. I never had a problem after a few sessions in the chair.

This. 4M0X1's and 43AX's or someone with similar training skill in the civilian world can really help you.

Check out the Airsickness Management Program (AETCI 48-102). You can be disqualified from entry to the Air Force for any position (flying or not) if you have airsickness from just normal commercial flight that can't be overcome by approved medication.

[DFRESH]

Dramamine is not on the OTC nor approved Aircrew Med List.This. 4M0X1's and 43AX's or someone with similar training skill in the civilian world can really help you.

Do you have a link to said OTC and approved aircrew med list? I needed it a few weeks ago and couldn't find it anywhere.

[Learjetter]

Do you have a link to said OTC and approved aircrew med list? I needed it a few weeks ago and couldn't find it anywhere.

Pretty sure you can find a link in AFI 11-202v3.

[Toro]

Pretty sure you can find a link in AFI 11-202v3.

Link in the last bullet, but I can't access it.

9.11.2. Use of any medication or dietary supplements is governed by AFI 48-123 and as approved by a flight surgeon. Aircrew members will not normally self-medicate. In the absence of other MAJCOM guidance, the following is a partial list of medications that may be used without medical consultation:

9.11.2.1. Single doses of over-the-counter (OTC) aspirin, acetaminophen or ibuprofen to provide analgesia for minor self-limiting conditions.

9.11.2.2. OTC skin antiseptics, topical anti-fungals, 1 percent hydrocortisone cream, or benzoyl peroxide for minor wounds and skin diseases which do not hinder flying duties or wear of personal equipment.

9.11.2.3. OTC antacids for mild isolated episodes of indigestion.

9.11.2.4. OTC hemorrhoidal suppositories.

9.11.2.5. OTC bismuth subsalicylate for mild cases of diarrhea.

9.11.2.6. OTC oxymetazoline or phenylephrine nasal sprays may be carried should unexpected ear or sinus block occur during flight. Aircrew may only use such sprays as ―get me downs.‖ Do not use to treat symptoms of head congestion prior to flight.

9.11.2.7. For information on medication, see Aerospace Medicine policy letters at: https://kx.afms.mil/...ospaceMedicine.