Questions on TPS (Test Pilot School)

[jango220]

2. How likely is it to be able to get into AFIT right after college? With the AFIT slot are you required to to serve in some sort of engineering capacity after you graduate from it? Going hand in hand with the previous question, do you have to give up your assigned AFSC if you get an AFIT slot?

If you are going after a rated slot (pilot, nav, ABM, etc) from ROTC, then getting a direct-ascension AFIT slot will be very difficult (read: near impossible). When I applied for it, they actually quoted that not only was I ineligible due to being a 92T0, but since I was a December grad, I was even more ineligible - if that makes sense. I pleaded my case up several levels to no avail, including to the 3-star AU/CC when I was at Maxwell for ASBC. From what I can gather, if you want an AFIT slot and fly, either go the 62-route and try to apply for the rated board, or get your wings then apply to AFIT. I definitely recommend the first option over the second after talking with some friends who are at AFIT currently and some who already graduated. For me, I just stuffed the AFIT idea and got to work on my masters (a M.Eng. actually) while I waited for UPT to start.

As far as post-AFIT, the only stipulation is that you have to work in an Advanced Degree (AD) coded position upon graduation. However, if you are going to UPT or UNT, that requirement is waived. You keep your assigned AFSC throughout AFIT, and just go on to your job after graduation. If you still are interested, make sure you completely read all of the associated AFROTCI's, Holm Center I's, AETCI's, and AFI's having to do with AFIT Direct Ascensions. When you make your case, it always helps to have ammo.

[i.o.w.a]

What are the chances of getting into TPS these days? I see they have 24 spots available each year but I'm curious how many apply. We talking 10 applicants per spot or 100? And as a future heavy pilot (currently T-1), does that make TPS even less likely? I guess I am looking for what the standard is for the "average" applicant that gets accepted.

[Dupe]

What are the chances of getting into TPS these days? I see they have 24 spots available each year but I'm curious how many apply. We talking 10 applicants per spot or 100? And as a future heavy pilot (currently T-1), does that make TPS even less likely? I guess I am looking for what the standard is for the "average" applicant that gets accepted.

Really, the chances change every year. Each year, the TPS board looks to provide test pilots for the programs that will be in the flight test phase about two years out. The pilots are split up into the broad categories of fighter, bomber, heavy, helo (the helo guys don't count in the 24 number as they all go to Navy TPS at Pax River, MD), or AFSOC, and their packages compete against the other pilots of the same category. The number of slots in each category is fixed going into the board as its need based. The board is chaired by the TPS Commandant, so it seems like what's important to the board (undergrad GPA vs masters vs flying experience vs officership) changes every two years. There's still much debate about how to treat the RPV guys, but for now...they can't apply. It seems that AFMC needs 2 to 4 heavy guys per year.

All the heavy TPS grads I know had this rough bio the day they drove onto Edwards:

-O-4 selected to TPS after 2-3 Ops tours.

-Has a technical Masters

-Has been a DG of one or more formal training programs

-Has been qualified in two or more seperate aircraft.

From my perception, being a FAIP or on a white-jet tour has not hurt anyone's TPS chances.

Bottom line: apply. Your chance of getting accepted is zero if you don't. Other than that, the chances vary yearly and are based on factors way outside your control. As with everything else in the Air Force, luck and timing are the keys. Feel free to PM me if you want to know more, or want the names of some heavy TPS grads (large multi-engine...not overweight).

[Muscle2002]

There's still much debate about how to treat the RPV guys, but for now...they can't apply. It seems that AFMC needs 2 to 4 heavy guys per year.

Are you saying they cannot apply for a separate category (in the vein of pilot/WSO/FTE)? Or at all?

I know a guy from undergrad that was picked up last board. Background: F-16 to MQ-1...now at EDW. Of course, he was picked up for the fighter category, so go figure.

Just curious.

[Dupe]

Are you saying they cannot apply for a separate category (in the vein of pilot/WSO/FTE)? Or at all?

Right now, RPV controller time doesn't count towards the min hour requirement for pilots to apply to TPS. So a guy with only RPV experience will be ineligible. They haven't yet taken a guy with the intention of filling a RPV slot immediately following TPS, and they have yet to figure out which category the new unmanned aerial systems operators should apply in. They haven't taken an RPV guy and put him into the Nav or FTE track (as those are specified to be 12X or 61X/62X AFSCs by reg).

Big picture, I've also seen a guy pulled from an ALO - Korea gig early to go to Edwards and a guy who got picked up for TPS after 2-3 years on the staff at the Pentagon.

[Mongoose]

Right now, RPV controller time doesn't count towards the min hour requirement for pilots to apply to TPS. So a guy with only RPV experience will be ineligible. They haven't yet taken a guy with the intention of filling a RPV slot immediately following TPS, and they have yet to figure out which category the new unmanned aerial systems operators should apply in. They haven't taken an RPV guy and put him into the Nav or FTE track (as those are specified to be 12X or 61X/62X AFSCs by reg).

Big picture, I've also seen a guy pulled from an ALO - Korea gig early to go to Edwards and a guy who got picked up for TPS after 2-3 years on the staff at the Pentagon.

Actually Dupe that is incorrect (or just outdated). This last board they selected 2x guys with RPV *ptooey* time. One had ~669 F-16 hours, and they gave him a pass on the min hour requirement (now 750) and selected him as a pilot. He will go through the normal pilot track and be a "Test Pilot" when he is done. The other guy got Tami-21'ed with less than 300 F-16 hours, and has a lot of RPV experience. He will go through as a modified Nav/WSO - i.e. he'll get more sorties than an FTE, but not nearly as many as a pilot. When he is done, he'll be a Test-RPV-pilot, or something like that. The community isn't sure really what form his course should look like, but they know we're going to need lots more like him in the near future. So it's time to bite the bullet and dive in. I can't remember if those guys started in June, or not till January.

Cheers,

-Jason

[HeloDude]

Commander told me a few weeks ago that the results would be released end of the month (and here we are), but another reliable source told me today that they'll be released this December...any other hopefuls out there hearing anything similar?

I'm more anxious about the results of this board than I am my upcoming Major's board!

[HuggyU2]

HeloDude,

If selected, you'd go to Pax, right?

[HeloDude]

HeloDude,

If selected, you'd go to Pax, right?

Yep...unless lady luck really helps me out and I get to go to the British or French school.

Oh, and I should have done a google search myself--AF website says December as well.

https://www.edwards.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=6467

[Muscle2002]

Yep...unless lady luck really helps me out and I get to go to the British or French school.

Oh, and I should have done a google search myself--AF website says December as well.

https://www.edwards.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=6467

I just got back from the flight eval/interview last week. They said they hope results are out by Christmas, but it's in AFPC's hands now...translation: January.

[HuggyU2]

I just got back from the flight eval/interview last week.

How many pilots interviewed? How many slots?

What do you currently fly?

[Dupe]

Yep...unless lady luck really helps me out and I get to go to the British or French school.

As a helo guy, you should want to go to Pax. Pax is the global center of the rotary wing flight test community. There are instructors there who have tested nearly every US rotary wing program since 'Nam. The folks you meet there will help you later in your career.

Fixed wing Air Force guys are best served by going through Edwards. USAF TPS is the only military Test Pilot School that offers a Masters. Since most of the fixed wing DT in the Air Force is done at Edwards, its one less PCS. On top of that, USAF TPS uses the same test support assets and test program structure as the rest of Edwards, so its usefull to see the process as a student.

Going to Empire or EPNER would be a neat experience for a year, but I think there's alot of hidden disadvantages. I think there's even a pretty big disadvantage for the one fixed-wing Air Force guy per class to go to Pax.

I just got back from the flight eval/interview last week. They said they hope results are out by Christmas, but it's in AFPC's hands now...translation: January.

Here are the data: every year since they instituted the flight eval, results have not been out before the new year.

[HuggyU2]

As a helo guy, you should want to go to Pax.

Plus, they have the brand new Lakotas flying. Sweet aircraft.

[Muscle2002]

Here are the data: every year since they instituted the flight eval, results have not been out before the new year.

Exactly, last year was the first year of doing the CCEP and results came out in mid-January...given the interview timeline was nearly the same this year, I won't hold my breath for results until 2011.

[HeloDude]

MBA for sure. They don't want a bunch of geeky engineers screwing up their test pilot program.

I sure hope so! I'll let you guys know here pretty soon if they like my MBA or not. Personally, I think having a strong engineering background from your undergrad coupled with an MBA makes you a more well rounded candidate.

[Guest GTEWO]

I got in last years board as a Test CSO/EWO/NAV what ever you want to call it, with 3/4 of a Masters in Engineering Management (half industrial engineering half MBA classes). I am sure that helped along with everything else.

Good luck

[tripilot]

I read this whole f*ing thread again to see what the new conversation was. Fail.

[dream big]

I currently have a BS in political science, so essentially a non technical degree. If I were to get a technical masters, would I be eligible to apply?

[HeloDude]

I currently have a BS in political science, so essentially a non technical degree. If I were to get a technical masters, would I be eligible to apply?

No

[nrodgsxr]

what about GPA? I have a BS in Computer Science from Georgia Tech but my undergrad GPA was a 2.88. Should I even bother or is there a remote chance? I thought the min was a 3.0.

I am almost done with my masters but it's basically a basket weaving degree.

[HeloDude]

what about GPA? I have a BS in Computer Science from Georgia Tech but my undergrad GPA was a 2.88. Should I even bother or is there a remote chance? I thought the min was a 3.0.

I am almost done with my masters but it's basically a basket weaving degree.

According to the new GPA rules of requiring a 3.0, you'll have to apply for a waiver. I had a buddy last year (when they raised the GPA requirement) tell me that the research he did led him to believe that they were reluctant to grant GPA waivers, hence probably the reason the AF raised the requirements in the first place. However, if it's something you really want, submit the package and ask for a waiver--what's the worst they can tell you?

[Muscle2002]

I currently have a BS in political science, so essentially a non technical degree. If I were to get a technical masters, would I be eligible to apply?

As stated below, you can request a waiver for almost anything...in this case, the lack of a B.S. in a tech field, but it's an uphill battle...at least if you earn a technical M.S., then you lend some credence to your case.

According to the new GPA rules of requiring a 3.0, you'll have to apply for a waiver. I had a buddy last year (when they raised the GPA requirement) tell me that the research he did led him to believe that they were reluctant to grant GPA waivers, hence probably the reason the AF raised the requirements in the first place. However, if it's something you really want, submit the package and ask for a waiver--what's the worst they can tell you?

[Guest Sketch]

For an EWO applying this year:

On the resume of flying experience, there are columns for AC, Instructor, or Evaluator. Should those of us with 12s in front of our AFSCs list our primary time anywhere on the resume?

Thanks.

[Mongoose]

Sketch,

Just put your time where it makes the most sense. They know you're a 12XX. They're only evaluating you against other 12XX guys, and there's only typically one spot per class (so two per board).

Good luck!

Edited for grammar...

Edited March 27, 2012 by Mongoose

[pcola]

I'm putting together my app for this year's board. I think I have a pretty strong package, but haven't flown much recently due to a non-vol ITDY, so I'm missing the MWS IP. I was a C-21 IP, now a C-5 AC (currently deployed - non flying.) BSEE with 3.2 GPA, 20 hours complete of MEng w/4.0 GPA. 3x DG (including shoe flag,) prior OG exec with good strats, mostly clean FEF (one Q-3 for taking out a taxi light coming out of parking in FRED.) Also, I used to work as a civilian DOD engineer, so I have some experience with the DOD acquisitions process and with DOD engineering program management.

My question for grads or those that have been selected is what should I focus my personal statement on? Should I focus on why my prior experience and education would be a benefit to the class and ultimately the test community, or should I attempt to explain away the negatives (no IP and the Q-3.) Should I even mention the Q-3? Ultimately, I'm not all that worried about not being an IP. If I don't get picked up this year I will apply again next year, when I will have the MEng complete and the MWS IP checked. What I'm most concerned about is the damn Q-3, because its still going to be there next year.

Any thoughts appreciated. Thanks.