USAF / USA / USN / USMC Vision

[Guest KBF]

I'm working on an application to USAF OTS and want to fly fighter jets.

My current refractive error is -3.75 in both eyes.

What sort of timeline is necessary for me to get surgery, secure any waivers, and apply for a pilot slot without restrictions? Also which surgery is recommended? Is it even possible to do this as a civilian before applying?

[Guest goducks]

I'm working on an application to USAF OTS and want to fly fighter jets.

My current refractive error is -3.75 in both eyes.

What sort of timeline is necessary for me to get surgery, secure any waivers, and apply for a pilot slot without restrictions? Also which surgery is recommended? Is it even possible to do this as a civilian before applying?

Look here:

Ask again in that thread if you still have questions.

[Bayou_Eagle_Driver]

All (Goducks!) -

I've spent the last 2 years planning and preparing to fly for the USAF. I'm currently enlisted in a Guard unit, but got hired last August for a Reserve unit.

I went to MEPs a month ago, and passed through all the vision stuff no problem. However my recruiter told me today that the AFRC Surgeon General didn't approve me to go to Brooks for my FC1 because he said my Pre-op refractive error was too great.

According to the Oct 2009 Waiver guide, the limit is -8.00 diopters (Cyclo). Here is the info on my pre-surgery report:

Cyclo

OD: -8.00 x 3.00 x 85

OS: -8.00 x 2.75 x 100

Now, my dry rx is about a diopter higher (-9.00) but from what I understand, it's only Cyclo that matters.

Am I correct that I meet the regs? I emailed my recruiter a copy of the waiver guide, and a copy of my pre-surgery report (highlighting the cyclo part). But this should be information he already had.

Also, I have a document that shows my rx as:

-4.75 x -2.75 x 170

-5.50 x -2.25 x 10

Since this is in minus cylinder, is it still within limits? I might have to use this rx to back up my claims.

[Guest goducks]

All (Goducks!) -

I've spent the last 2 years planning and preparing to fly for the USAF. I'm currently enlisted in a Guard unit, but got hired last August for a Reserve unit.

I went to MEPs a month ago, and passed through all the vision stuff no problem. However my recruiter told me today that the AFRC Surgeon General didn't approve me to go to Brooks for my FC1 because he said my Pre-op refractive error was too great.

According to the Oct 2009 Waiver guide, the limit is -8.00 diopters (Cyclo). Here is the info on my pre-surgery report:

Cyclo

OD: -8.00 x 3.00 x 85

OS: -8.00 x 2.75 x 100

Now, my dry rx is about a diopter higher (-9.00) but from what I understand, it's only Cyclo that matters.

Am I correct that I meet the regs? I emailed my recruiter a copy of the waiver guide, and a copy of my pre-surgery report (highlighting the cyclo part). But this should be information he already had.

Also, I have a document that shows my rx as:

-4.75 x -2.75 x 170

-5.50 x -2.25 x 10

Since this is in minus cylinder, is it still within limits? I might have to use this rx to back up my claims.

It is ONLY the cyclo that matters and it's immaterial if your manifest was over the -8.00 limit prior to surgery. Based on what you've provided I don't see any reason why you're not qualified to proceed to Brooks. Granted you are right at the limit for myopia (-8.00) and astigmatism (-3.00), but that shouldn't be an issue.

Is it possible that someone doesn't know about the expanded parameters for pre-refractive surgery or is there something else that may be the problem?

GD

[Bayou_Eagle_Driver]

GD -

Sent them the current waiver reg, and my pre-op report with my -8.00 highlighted....they magically approved me today. Go figure.

Thanks for the help as always.....off to brooks, let's see what hurdles that presents (I hope they don't make the same mistake!)

-LS

[Guest goducks]

GD -

Sent them the current waiver reg, and my pre-op report with my -8.00 highlighted....they magically approved me today. Go figure.

Thanks for the help as always.....off to brooks, let's see what hurdles that presents (I hope they don't make the same mistake!)

-LS

Doesn't reflect well on the process. I can guarantee you that the folks at Brooks will have no confusion about what the current waiver limits are. Best of luck.

[Guest desrea777]

Hi everyone, hoping for some help here after going through/searching the various message boards and not finding the answer... my apologies if this is already posted somewhere, I know how annoying (and how it can affect my posting eligibility) that is..

So I am right around the waiver limits as both eyes are around -3.00 (granted my prescription is slightly higher but the eye doc says I can see 20/20 when he sets the "machine" to -3.00 w/ dilating drops), heading to Brooks soon for an ANG slot, and am wondering what my options are if for some reason I come out just outside of limits, for example -3.25. I know this is not waiverable, but do I have the option of saying "I want to go get PRK, see you in a year for my re-eval?" Does this depend on the unit's flexibility? I have heard of this being done, but is that standard practice?

Has anyone else been right at the limit and passed/failed? How are the eye docs at Brooks when it comes to reading the vision chart at the various powers of prescription? Is it "okay you took too long/missed a letter, you can't read the bottom line, you're done" or do they give you a few seconds or a chance to redo a missed letter? I know they have a job to do, and am fully prepared for the outcome either way, just curious how it is when I get there.

If they don't let you go get PRK after you fail, as in a fail is a fail forever, is the best strategy to go get PRK now, and inform Brooks of the situation (thus, at the very least, delaying the medical)? My unit that hired me never asked about PRK, etc. but I feel like I should inform/ask them before doing something like this, but if the option is that or risk failing and thus failing forever with no option for PRK/LASIK, I'll take the first choice.

Thanks everyone... as always, this board is extremely helpful.

Sorry if I got too much into LASIK/PRK questions, I have read the entire "PRK and LASIK Information" thread

[Bayou_Eagle_Driver]

Hi everyone, hoping for some help here after going through/searching the various message boards and not finding the answer... my apologies if this is already posted somewhere, I know how annoying (and how it can affect my posting eligibility) that is..

So I am right around the waiver limits as both eyes are around -3.00 (granted my prescription is slightly higher but the eye doc says I can see 20/20 when he sets the "machine" to -3.00 w/ dilating drops), heading to Brooks soon for an ANG slot, and am wondering what my options are if for some reason I come out just outside of limits, for example -3.25. I know this is not waiverable, but do I have the option of saying "I want to go get PRK, see you in a year for my re-eval?" Does this depend on the unit's flexibility? I have heard of this being done, but is that standard practice?

Has anyone else been right at the limit and passed/failed? How are the eye docs at Brooks when it comes to reading the vision chart at the various powers of prescription? Is it "okay you took too long/missed a letter, you can't read the bottom line, you're done" or do they give you a few seconds or a chance to redo a missed letter? I know they have a job to do, and am fully prepared for the outcome either way, just curious how it is when I get there.

If they don't let you go get PRK after you fail, as in a fail is a fail forever, is the best strategy to go get PRK now, and inform Brooks of the situation (thus, at the very least, delaying the medical)? My unit that hired me never asked about PRK, etc. but I feel like I should inform/ask them before doing something like this, but if the option is that or risk failing and thus failing forever with no option for PRK/LASIK, I'll take the first choice.

Thanks everyone... as always, this board is extremely helpful.

Sorry if I got too much into LASIK/PRK questions, I have read the entire "PRK and LASIK Information" thread

Actually this is a good question. Tough spot if you ask me. If I had to wager a guess, I would say PRK/LASIK is in your future. Brooks is going to do a number of tests on your eyes, and if I remember correctly an auto-refraction test is performed, giving you your BVC (best visual acuity) which I'm going to assume is going to be over -3.00 diopters, which will DQ you.

What happens after this? I'm not sure, someone at Brooks would be the best person to talk to: "What happens if I get DQ'd, can I get LASIK and come back later?" might be a good question to ask. However, you also might be in a bad spot medically when you reapply having to check "Have you ever been disqualified from a commissioning source?" on your brooks application. It will raise a lot of red-flags, and will probably make your second go-around a real headache (even though chances are you'll be WELL within the limits at that point).

Then again, you could go there and they could pass you. The way I read the reg is that your Rx for seeing 20/20 needs to be less than or equal to -3.00 diopters, which if your eye doctor was right, you'd be within.

The good news is that if you DO elect for Refractive Surgery, your chances of a good outcome and subsequent FC1 passing is pretty high.

Honestly, I would CALL Brooks and ask to speak to a flight doc, PM me and I will send you some contact information. They're friendly, and usually very helpful.

Tough spot man, good luck - don't worry, either way you go you'll still be able to push through one way or the other, it just might mean more headaches.

:beer:

[Guest goducks]

Hi everyone, hoping for some help here after going through/searching the various message boards and not finding the answer... my apologies if this is already posted somewhere, I know how annoying (and how it can affect my posting eligibility) that is..

So I am right around the waiver limits as both eyes are around -3.00 (granted my prescription is slightly higher but the eye doc says I can see 20/20 when he sets the "machine" to -3.00 w/ dilating drops), heading to Brooks soon for an ANG slot, and am wondering what my options are if for some reason I come out just outside of limits, for example -3.25. I know this is not waiverable, but do I have the option of saying "I want to go get PRK, see you in a year for my re-eval?" Does this depend on the unit's flexibility? I have heard of this being done, but is that standard practice?

Has anyone else been right at the limit and passed/failed? How are the eye docs at Brooks when it comes to reading the vision chart at the various powers of prescription? Is it "okay you took too long/missed a letter, you can't read the bottom line, you're done" or do they give you a few seconds or a chance to redo a missed letter? I know they have a job to do, and am fully prepared for the outcome either way, just curious how it is when I get there.

If they don't let you go get PRK after you fail, as in a fail is a fail forever, is the best strategy to go get PRK now, and inform Brooks of the situation (thus, at the very least, delaying the medical)? My unit that hired me never asked about PRK, etc. but I feel like I should inform/ask them before doing something like this, but if the option is that or risk failing and thus failing forever with no option for PRK/LASIK, I'll take the first choice.

Thanks everyone... as always, this board is extremely helpful.

Sorry if I got too much into LASIK/PRK questions, I have read the entire "PRK and LASIK Information" thread

The docs at Brooks will give you every opportunity to see 20/20 at -3.00 or less. They aren't going to rush you or DQ you immediately if you miss a letter. However, if you demonstrate consistently that you need more lens power than -3.00 to see 20/20, then that's what they're going to report. FWIW, the drops used at Brooks (1% Cyclopentolate) are typically much stronger than the drops a civilian optometrist will use and they will typically result in a more effective cyloplegia. This results in greater relaxation of the accommodating muscles as well as (usually)less myopia being measured.

If you are not waiverable as is, you have the option to get PRK/LASIK and get re-evaluated. Brooks doesn't care if you come back, but the question is whether your unit will stick with you long enough to get this done. It is not the standard of practice, but it's doable. I recall a few folks who came back through Brooks after getting some required treatment, but it's a small number.

I can't tell you whether you should or shouldn't get PRK/LASIK. If you have the time to spare, getting refractive surgery might ease your mind. It's not risk free, but it's pretty darn successful.

Best of luck.

GD

[Guest desrea777]

Thanks to both of you who replied, VERY helpeful.

Goducks, do you have any insight into the other reply to my post as to what they actually use to test your visual acuity? I had always thought it was as simple as reading the chart at whatever prescription allows you to see 20/20, and that the autorefractor measurement had no bearing on you passing/failing that portion of the test (I'm not sure what it IS used for though??)... Am I wrong on this?

I've had an autorefractor done before and the number came out higher than my required prescription to see 20/20, so that would be a significant factor for me.

Thanks again..

[Guest goducks]

Thanks to both of you who replied, VERY helpeful.

Goducks, do you have any insight into the other reply to my post as to what they actually use to test your visual acuity? I had always thought it was as simple as reading the chart at whatever prescription allows you to see 20/20, and that the autorefractor measurement had no bearing on you passing/failing that portion of the test (I'm not sure what it IS used for though??)... Am I wrong on this?

I've had an autorefractor done before and the number came out higher than my required prescription to see 20/20, so that would be a significant factor for me.

Thanks again..

You are correct. It's based on the Rx that allows you to read the eyechart at 20/20. The autorefractor means nothing.

GD

[Mad Dog]

I have been seeing some conflicting information with regards to the current uncorrected near vision requirement for the Air Force Class I physical. Some sources on the net are saying 20/30 and some are saying 20/20 uncorrected. I would assume that the standard might have recently changed and some info is outdated. If anyone could verify which is correct that would be wonderful.

Thanks for everyones help, this website looks to be an excellent resource!

BF,

I also had some confusion about near visual acuity standards for the FC-1. 20/20 uncorrected seemed to be the consensus for near vision standards. However, the most recent version of AFI48-123 (dated 24 Sep 2009) indicates that limit for near vision is 20/30 uncorrected, as long as it is correctable to 20/20.

I hope this helps.

MD

[varmint_10]

After reading through lots and lots of vision info on this forum, I find that I am still a bit apprehensive about my eyes. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Here goes...

I was recently fitted by my civilian eye doc with my first pair of contact lenses (soft Biofinity Toric from CooperVision). After several check-ups, it seems that all is well and the fit is good. The problem is that my left eye (the worse of the two) is still a little blurry when trying to read the 20/20 line for both near and distant vision, even with the lenses on. My doc says that this is the best I will get with contact lenses. My prescription reads as follows:

SPH CYL AXIS

O.D. pl -1.00 092

O.S. +.25 -1.50 086

I don't really know what any of that means, except that almost all of my problem is astigmatism, and that (I think) I am right on the borderline of -1.50.

I have read through all the waiverable limits, etc. I read on one of these posts that the visual acuity (i.e. 20/xx) is rarely a show-stopper, and that ultimately they are looking at the refractive error (i.e. -1.50 astigmatism). Is that accurate? Today at the eye doc I missed 1 letter in the 20/20 line with my lenses on. Would that DQ me at Wright-Pat? Also, regarding the previous post, I know my uncorrected near vision is worse than 20/20, and I would be lucky if it is 20/30. I think it is closer to 20/40. Is this going to DQ me? I am 28 and have never worn glasses/contacts before now. To me there is a neglible difference in my day-to-day life with/without the lenses. I got picked up in April to fly C-130's, and am awaiting my FC1 date. If I run into a vision waiver, I will then most likely also run into an age waiver, which would be a severe pain in the arse. Any thoughts, insights? Thanks in adavnce...

[Guest goducks]

After reading through lots and lots of vision info on this forum, I find that I am still a bit apprehensive about my eyes. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Here goes...

I was recently fitted by my civilian eye doc with my first pair of contact lenses (soft Biofinity Toric from CooperVision). After several check-ups, it seems that all is well and the fit is good. The problem is that my left eye (the worse of the two) is still a little blurry when trying to read the 20/20 line for both near and distant vision, even with the lenses on. My doc says that this is the best I will get with contact lenses. My prescription reads as follows:

SPH CYL AXIS

O.D. pl -1.00 092

O.S. +.25 -1.50 086

I don't really know what any of that means, except that almost all of my problem is astigmatism, and that (I think) I am right on the borderline of -1.50.

I have read through all the waiverable limits, etc. I read on one of these posts that the visual acuity (i.e. 20/xx) is rarely a show-stopper, and that ultimately they are looking at the refractive error (i.e. -1.50 astigmatism). Is that accurate? Today at the eye doc I missed 1 letter in the 20/20 line with my lenses on. Would that DQ me at Wright-Pat? Also, regarding the previous post, I know my uncorrected near vision is worse than 20/20, and I would be lucky if it is 20/30. I think it is closer to 20/40. Is this going to DQ me? I am 28 and have never worn glasses/contacts before now. To me there is a neglible difference in my day-to-day life with/without the lenses. I got picked up in April to fly C-130's, and am awaiting my FC1 date. If I run into a vision waiver, I will then most likely also run into an age waiver, which would be a severe pain in the arse. Any thoughts, insights? Thanks in adavnce...

You are on the border for the astigmatism standard, but it's waiverable to 3.00 D.

Your problem with the left eye is either 1) The contact isn't giving you good enough optical correction to see 20/20 well. Glasses may work better. or 2) You might have a small amount of refractive amblyopia due to the astigmatism. Google it for more information. #1 is more likely the culprit, however.

I wouldn't worry about the near vision. Your Rx is not that unusual and most folks can meet the near requirement.

If you do end up having to get a vision waiver, it really doesn't slow the process down. So the age waiver isn't going to be an issue due to your eyes.

GD.

[varmint_10]

You are on the border for the astigmatism standard, but it's waiverable to 3.00 D.

Your problem with the left eye is either 1) The contact isn't giving you good enough optical correction to see 20/20 well. Glasses may work better. or 2) You might have a small amount of refractive amblyopia due to the astigmatism. Google it for more information. #1 is more likely the culprit, however.

I wouldn't worry about the near vision. Your Rx is not that unusual and most folks can meet the near requirement.

If you do end up having to get a vision waiver, it really doesn't slow the process down. So the age waiver isn't going to be an issue due to your eyes.

GD.

GoDucks,

Thank you for the quick reply. Do you think a different lens might work better, or should I just go straight to glasses? Since my doc seems to think this is as good as it will get with contacts, should I get a second opinion?

[Guest goducks]

GoDucks,

Thank you for the quick reply. Do you think a different lens might work better, or should I just go straight to glasses? Since my doc seems to think this is as good as it will get with contacts, should I get a second opinion?

First, I would verify what your best spectacle corrected vision is. If it's better than you're getting with the contact lens, I would try another contact brand/type. If you're still not 20/20 with a good spectacle correction, then you simply aren't correctable to 20/20.

[Extra300Driver]

I was told by my visual therapist that Glasses do a much better job of correcting astigmatisms and other complex situations other than refraction. Thats all I know.. Contacts didnt work for me.. so I rock the nerd sets.

I have a question..

What if I am correctable to 20/20 without cyclopegic, but during the cycloplegic exam.. one of my eyes does not correct to 20/20, but is near correction.. like 20/30.. does this matter.. especially if I can pass a Depth perception exam?

I worry about the amblyopia on my right eye that I have progressively been fixing.. its almost there! My central fixation is off by a micro-measure right now and I am working on fixing it.

Thanks for all your insight in the past Go_Ducks.

[Guest goducks]

I was told by my visual therapist that Glasses do a much better job of correcting astigmatisms and other complex situations other than refraction. Thats all I know.. Contacts didnt work for me.. so I rock the nerd sets.

I have a question..

What if I am correctable to 20/20 without cyclopegic, but during the cycloplegic exam.. one of my eyes does not correct to 20/20, but is near correction.. like 20/30.. does this matter.. especially if I can pass a Depth perception exam?

I worry about the amblyopia on my right eye that I have progressively been fixing.. its almost there! My central fixation is off by a micro-measure right now and I am working on fixing it.

Thanks for all your insight in the past Go_Ducks.

You have to be correctable to 20/20 on both manifest and cycloplegic. Truthfully, 20/30 isn't really close to 20/20, certainly not in the FCI world. 20/20-1 (i.e. you missed a single letter on the 20/20 line) is close to 20/20, and that still does not meet the standard.

[Guest tslamar]

I had a Marine recruiter tell me that the Marine Pre-Op refraction range was -8 to +6. A civil service employee at NOMI says the hyperopic refraction can't exceed +3. Which is it?

Thanks

[Guest goducks]

I had a Marine recruiter tell me that the Marine Pre-Op refraction range was -8 to +6. A civil service employee at NOMI says the hyperopic refraction can't exceed +3. Which is it?

Thanks

I don't have concrete information, but would be exceedingly surprised if they accepted up to +6.00 D. Most refractive surgeons wouldn't touch that type of hyperopic correction in the first place. If I run across a more definitive answer, I'll let you know.

Just found out from a good source that the Navy/Marine limit is +3.00 D spherical equivalent. Google spherical equivalent if you aren't familiar with the term.

Edited October 26, 2011 by goducks
Added info

[Guest SaabFO]

I'm sure the info is posted, but I'm too lazy to search so:

-1.50 is the standard, but the waiverable limit is -3.00. This particular waiver is a formality, thus your doc is correct in saying that you are basically PQ.

To answer your other question, waivers are based on the worst eye. If one eye is waiverable and on isn't, then no waiver.

I am new to all this so I appologize if I am not completely caught up. I have read most of the theads on this subject in hear.

My current refractive error is

OD -3.00

OS -3.25

I called my eye Dr. Today and was told I have no astigmatism, does this mean I could potentially get a waiver and not need eye surgery? I am pretty sure those numbers are not Cyclo, which my understanding is it would most likely go down to -3.00 or less if it was?

Do they look at cornea thickness during the FC1? I was told that I was not able to get any surgery because of the thickness of mine. Would this fall under the category of "potential problems in the future" I have been reading about?

I have always wanted to fly in the Military but was always told I couldnt because of my eyes, I am hoping that is not true! Keeping fingers crossed! There are a few ANG squadrons I would love to fly with close to me!

Thank you for your help!

[Extra300Driver]

If I fail the vision test with like a 20/25 vision.. if I get a doctors note saying I can see 20/20 and to retest, will they do it? If its within reasonable timeframe?

[Guest turboprop8771]

I am new to all this so I appologize if I am not completely caught up. I have read most of the theads on this subject in hear.

My current refractive error is

OD -3.00

OS -3.25

I called my eye Dr. Today and was told I have no astigmatism, does this mean I could potentially get a waiver and not need eye surgery? I am pretty sure those numbers are not Cyclo, which my understanding is it would most likely go down to -3.00 or less if it was?

Do they look at cornea thickness during the FC1? I was told that I was not able to get any surgery because of the thickness of mine. Would this fall under the category of "potential problems in the future" I have been reading about?

I have always wanted to fly in the Military but was always told I couldnt because of my eyes, I am hoping that is not true! Keeping fingers crossed! There are a few ANG squadrons I would love to fly with close to me!

Thank you for your help!

Another thing to consider when comparing your civilian prescription to the FC1 standards is that the optometrist at Wright-Patt is only correcting you for the 20/20 line. So, your civilian optometrist might be able to make you 20/15, which would require a greater correction; however, at Wright-Patt the refractive error used will be referenced from the lowest correction required to read the 20/20 line. This lower correction, along with the eye dilation, might put you within waiverable limits.

I can't provide any insight regarding your corneal thickness.

If you want to calm your nerves a bit, perhaps you can request your that your civilian optometrist test you to FC1 standards (your refraction error with dilation and corrected only to when you can first make out the 20/20 line).

Goducks will probably have better insight/advice.

[Guest SaabFO]

Great! Thank you very much for the info. I will schedule an appointment and see what it comes out as.

Another thing to consider when comparing your civilian prescription to the FC1 standards is that the optometrist at Wright-Patt is only correcting you for the 20/20 line. So, your civilian optometrist might be able to make you 20/15, which would require a greater correction; however, at Wright-Patt the refractive error used will be referenced from the lowest correction required to read the 20/20 line. This lower correction, along with the eye dilation, might put you within waiverable limits.

I can't provide any insight regarding your corneal thickness.

If you want to calm your nerves a bit, perhaps you can request your that your civilian optometrist test you to FC1 standards (your refraction error with dilation and corrected only to when you can first make out the 20/20 line).

Goducks will probably have better insight/advice.

[Extra300Driver]

FC1 results came back and I guess I need a Refraction Waiver.

Cyclo:

OD; +3.50-0.75X085

OS; +2.25-0.75X083

Passed OVT, with no degredation in stereopsis. ACS review required.

The flight doc told me not to worry because I am below +4 and have regular depth perception.

Anyone deal with this? How long does this take? Do these ever get denied?

Also.. I overhead a TSgt at Flight Med, saying that I should also get a Red Lense test before they send the packet out..

To me.. that doesnt make sense, because the waiver guideline just says "Pass the OVT".. which I did.

Anyone every have to take the Red Lense for their first FC1 ? I know it comes at MFS.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Extra300Driver