USAF / USA / USN / USMC Vision

[A-Gilbert]

So I am confused about something in the vision requirements for both the navy and the Air Force. I have no correction in my eyes for near/farsightedness but wear contacts for astigmatism. My astigmatism is -1.75 in both eyes confirmed by both methods of examaination. 

I understand that this is outside of the limits but can I get a waiver and still be eligible to be a pilot or would I need to get surgery and then submit for a post op waiver. I have seen some comments in here that mention waivers without surgery while others mention the waivers are for once you are within limits. 

Any insight is appreciated!

[stuckindayton]

20 hours ago, A-Gilbert said:

So I am confused about something in the vision requirements for both the navy and the Air Force. I have no correction in my eyes for near/farsightedness but wear contacts for astigmatism. My astigmatism is -1.75 in both eyes confirmed by both methods of examaination. 

I understand that this is outside of the limits but can I get a waiver and still be eligible to be a pilot or would I need to get surgery and then submit for a post op waiver. I have seen some comments in here that mention waivers without surgery while others mention the waivers are for once you are within limits. 

Any insight is appreciated!

Speaking strictly for the Air Force, if your prescription is as you describe you are fine.  You might need a waiver, however, that's no big deal.  You do not need surgery based on the information you provided.

[airplane7794]

I have not quite seen an answer to this question so I hope it is appropriate to ask:

I am an Airforce Reserve Applicant, Picked up by the board with sponsorship from units. Reading prior I believe there is a chance the Flight Doc at the FC1 will DQ me since my current prescription is -5.00. The recruter just sent the paperwork in for the FC1 last week so I have not yet a date for the visit.

Is it worth attending the FC1 and hearing there official decision on my vision, or should I just start the process of Lasik now, wait the 6 months and apply for the FC1 then?

[Stoker]

If you're certain you're disqualified now, then you might as well start the Lasik ball rolling, because you're definitely going to have to go back to Wright Pat after you get the surgery.

[A-Gilbert]

Hey all,

I thought I would give an update. After some helpful advice here and speaking with flight docs for both USAF and USN I made the decision to get PRK last Saturday. I cannot say it has been a fun week so far, but the advice from both Docs were pretty much “if you know you want to at least have a shot at being a pilot, go get surgery and start the clock on your recovery.”

I’m only 5 days past the surgery, but I’m willing to answer any questions people have for me regarding my conversations with the doctors or my surgery!

[dsharpless]

Hey @stuckindayton, can you answer a couple of questions for me? You helped me understand the pilot vision requirements a few months back, but now I'd like to understand a little more about the MEPS physical vs FC1. 

What is the difference between the two in terms of procedure for the vision portion? Do they both perform the same cycloplegic refraction? I.e. if I went and had a MEPS physical and had passing vision, should I expect to pass on the FC1?

I ask because I'm looking at an application that states that candidates may be required to have a MEPS physical performed prior to interview as part of the application process. What is the purpose of this physical if any selectee would still need an FC1 later? Perhaps just to vet applicants beforehand to weed out candidates that would be DQ'd at FC1? If that's not the reason, then why both?

And I assume based on comments above that a DQ at MEPS would not be a final "no," but that a DQ at FC1 would be permanent. Am I mistaken here?

Edited April 10, 2018 by dsharpless

[stuckindayton]

1 hour ago, dsharpless said:

Hey @stuckindayton, can you answer a couple of questions for me? You helped me understand the pilot vision requirements a few months back, but now I'd like to understand a little more about the MEPS physical vs FC1. 

What is the difference between the two in terms of procedure for the vision portion? Do they both perform the same cycloplegic refraction? I.e. if I went and had a MEPS physical and had passing vision, should I expect to pass on the FC1?

I ask because I'm looking at an application that states that candidates may be required to have a MEPS physical performed prior to interview as part of the application process. What is the purpose of this physical if any selectee would still need an FC1 later? Perhaps just to vet applicants beforehand to weed out candidates that would be DQ'd at FC1? If that's not the reason, then why both?

And I assume based on comments above that a DQ at MEPS would not be a final "no," but that a DQ at FC1 would be permanent. Am I mistaken here?

Good questions.  I'm not really sure.  Often times if a person fails the eyeball portion at MEPS, but the results are in question, they'll come for an IFC I exam anyway since we don't want to DQ anyone when it's not clear-cut.  I'm sure there is some overlap in the two exams, but they are certainly not the same.  The IFC I will be more in-depth with more tests.  Passing MEPS means you have a darn good chance at IFC I, but no guarantee.  I really don't even know if MEPS does a full cycloplegic exam, but that really impacts just a small percentage of people anyway.  I suspect MEPS is just a sanity check.  Do you have two eyes?  Yep, move on.  Plus, I would assume they would look at other parts of the physical that would be obvious DQs (e.g. are you crazy?).  Sorry, that's about all I can come up with.

[dsharpless]

Interesting. I was kind of hoping to try to use a MEPS physical to determine whether I was REALLY in need of corrective surgery, because I think I'm pretty close. Sounds like it may not be quite that simple. Oh well. 

Thanks for answering, I think the information you shared will still prove helpful. 

[stuckindayton]

54 minutes ago, dsharpless said:

Interesting. I was kind of hoping to try to use a MEPS physical to determine whether I was REALLY in need of corrective surgery, because I think I'm pretty close. Sounds like it may not be quite that simple. Oh well. 

Thanks for answering, I think the information you shared will still prove helpful. 

Send me your specific situation and I'll give you an answer (if possible).

[ARrado15]

Searching through this thread seems like most are worried about their FC1 physical and being disqualified, however would anybody know if their is a waiver process for FCII, specifically RPA pilot? I found an old (like 2010) waiver guide that stated it was possible, but not sure how this has changed. I know I do have depth perception, but my optometrist did state it was on the lower side of things.

[stuckindayton]

RPA has no depth perception requirement.

[GDAL]

It was my understanding that there is no depth perception requirement for RPA, but you still need a waiver to get through school if you do not meet the standard. Could be wrong, but something to do with the limited amount of flying you do with the UPT studs?

[stuckindayton]

GDAL is right (as usual).  RPA Pilot has no depth perception standard, but during RPA training you must meet FC II (Pilot) standards, which does include depth perception because you are doing manned flight.  The waiver authority has said they will waive this every time so you can get to be an RPA and then retire the waiver.  

[ARrado15]

That would be awesome! I have stressed a bunch over being disqualified for not having enough depth perception, even though I've never been affected by it ( even when flying ).

[MSCguy]

On 6/12/2018 at 2:21 AM, stuckindayton said:

GDAL is right (as usual).  RPA Pilot has no depth perception standard, but during RPA training you must meet FC II (Pilot) standards, which does include depth perception because you are doing manned flight.  The waiver authority has said they will waive this every time so you can get to be an RPA and then retire the waiver.  

I’m in a similar boat.  I have phorias that exceed FCII standards, however there are no phoria standards for RPA pilots.  Is this also typically waivered under the same line of thinking as waivering the depth perception for RPA only applicants?

[stuckindayton]

3 hours ago, MSCguy said:

I’m in a similar boat.  I have phorias that exceed FCII standards, however there are no phoria standards for RPA pilots.  Is this also typically waivered under the same line of thinking as waivering the depth perception for RPA only applicants?

Yes, I would expect the phorias to be waived for RPA training and then the waiver retired when you become an RPA Pilot.

[cmartel08]

I'm on AD and am wanting to apply for next year's UPT board. FCI schedule is backed up 2-3 months, and I plan to start working toward my PPL, but I have concerns over my eyes that I haven't found anything but bad news for..

Right eye is correctible to 20/20, but my left is only correctible to ~20/25... is this a lost cause for UPT? Any info would be appreciated.

FYSA, eye doc said my eyes aren't bad enough to warrant corrective surgery because the improvement rang is smaller than the error range. Also, would most likely only correct the left eye to 20/25 regardless.

[stuckindayton]

13 hours ago, cmartel08 said:

I'm on AD and am wanting to apply for next year's UPT board. FCI schedule is backed up 2-3 months, and I plan to start working toward my PPL, but I have concerns over my eyes that I haven't found anything but bad news for..

Right eye is correctible to 20/20, but my left is only correctible to ~20/25... is this a lost cause for UPT? Any info would be appreciated.

FYSA, eye doc said my eyes aren't bad enough to warrant corrective surgery because the improvement rang is smaller than the error range. Also, would most likely only correct the left eye to 20/25 regardless.

I'm sorry to say that if one eye is not correctable to 20/20, you are almost certainly going to be disqualified within no waiver.

[bluebaru]

Hello @stuckindayton, question for you about an issue in my left eye. I am currently -1.75 in both eyes corrected to 20/10, but my ophthalmologist diagnosed me with a small macular scar in my left eye. He hasn't made a big deal about it since they found and performed some cautionary tests (all came back nominal). The scar hasn't grown or changed in the 4 years I've had it, and I'm otherwise physically fit and would pass any other portion of a flight physical. I'm worried this might disqualify me. Is there a waiver for this kind of condition? Or will it even show up during MEPS or an FC1? My recruiter advised me not to mention it or list it during MEPS because it genuinely has no effect on my vision currently. I hardly notice anything outside the ordinary during an Amsler chart test. 

Any feedback is appreciated, thanks!

[stuckindayton]

On 11/30/2018 at 3:14 PM, bluebaru said:

Hello @stuckindayton, question for you about an issue in my left eye. I am currently -1.75 in both eyes corrected to 20/10, but my ophthalmologist diagnosed me with a small macular scar in my left eye. He hasn't made a big deal about it since they found and performed some cautionary tests (all came back nominal). The scar hasn't grown or changed in the 4 years I've had it, and I'm otherwise physically fit and would pass any other portion of a flight physical. I'm worried this might disqualify me. Is there a waiver for this kind of condition? Or will it even show up during MEPS or an FC1? My recruiter advised me not to mention it or list it during MEPS because it genuinely has no effect on my vision currently. I hardly notice anything outside the ordinary during an Amsler chart test. 

Any feedback is appreciated, thanks!

It will not be missed on an IFC I.  Can't speak for MEPS.  It's your call on whether to report it unless there are any medical history questions that pertain to it.  Then I would be honest.  I can't say for sure whether it would be disqualifying or even require a waiver.  It just depends on the specifics of the case.  Certainly having documentation showing that it's been present for a while without changes can't hurt.  I would be cautiously optimistic.

[flammable]

Had my FC1 done in the past month. I'd be very surprised if there's anything about your eyes they DON'T find out. It was essentially 3 days of eye testing with machines, doctors shining bright lights, and more doctors looking at your eyes. Had people dq for unnoticeable eye diseases and others told that waivers were possible for xyz issue. All depends on your severity which I don't think anyone here can answer unless you know 100% the background of your eyes.

Edited December 5, 2018 by flammable
.

[QMar92]

I was just disqualified at Wright Patt for my FC1 for having keratoconus. I understand this is a hard "no" presently at this time, but so was Lasik a few years ago. On the outside I am a commercial pilot with a Class 2 physical and I know there are captains for major airlines with this condition who have either had a corrective surgery or continued without it. My vision is well within standards. 

My question is this...is there research or a case study being conducted on corrective procedures for waiver approval for this condition? Is there anything I can do from my end to contribute in convincing doctors this is a waiverable condition when you have had a corrective procedure? I am looking into a cross-link surgery that is known as Holcomb C3-R  by the man that invented it himself Dr. Bran Boxer Wachler. If there was a different surgery that could be waiverable for this condition that I am not aware of what would it be?

[uhhello]

12 hours ago, QMar92 said:

I was just disqualified at Wright Patt for my FC1 for having keratoconus. I understand this is a hard "no" presently at this time, but so was Lasik a few years ago. On the outside I am a commercial pilot with a Class 2 physical and I know there are captains for major airlines with this condition who have either had a corrective surgery or continued without it. My vision is well within standards. 

My question is this...is there research or a case study being conducted on corrective procedures for waiver approval for this condition? Is there anything I can do from my end to contribute in convincing doctors this is a waiverable condition when you have had a corrective procedure? I am looking into a cross-link surgery that is known as Holcomb C3-R  by the man that invented it himself Dr. Bran Boxer Wachler. If there was a different surgery that could be waiverable for this condition that I am not aware of what would it be?

I’m an active duty flyer with a waiver for kerataconus.   Every 3 years I have to go to ACS and go thru the same battery of tests purely for tracking and baseline issues so that the big blue gets a better look at the way ahead with this issue. The FDA is moving ahead with the eye drops deal using UV light but the docs say it will be years before AF starts allowing it if it is approved 

[QMar92]

Tough to hear, but I'm going to keep checking on this. I'm 26 and I have still have some time and a little hope. 

[badger99]

I have 20/80 which can be corrected to 20/20. I want to join the AF and become a pilot? Would I need to get PRK or Lasik to have a realistic shot?