USAF / USA / USN / USMC Vision

[Daredevileng1]

Anyone every have to take the Red Lense for their first FC1 ?

Yes. The Airman at Optometry completed mine at the begining of my eye exam. I am still not real sure what the "right answer" was so I can't give you any hints, but it didn't seem designed to trick anyone.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Daredevileng1

[JakeFSU]

Sorry I can't answer your question Extra300Driver, but I was wondering if anyone as seen GoDucks?

It looks like he hasn't logged in since Novemeber. I really hope he didn't write this forum off just because of the bs that went down in the Red Lens Waiver thread. That would be a shame, he was a wealth of knowledge and would easily answer your question. I know he answered several of my quesions directly. Maybe try a PM.

Jake

[Extra300Driver]

Well maybe anyone can answer the likelihood of getting a refraction waiver ?

The waiver guide said that in 2005-2006, only 12% were DQ'd randomly for having an excessive Hyperopic refraction..

Edited February 11, 2012 by Extra300Driver

[Extra300Driver]

For future reference to anyone searching for the answer:

My Excessive Refraction Waiver (Hyperopia) was automatically approved by AETC with no followup or extra medical review.

[kaputt]

So I'm just looking for some clarification on something real quick: the difference between a Flying Class I phyiscal and a Flying Class II phyical. From what I am able to gather the Flying Class I is for clearance to enter UPT, and the Flying Class II is what you get after you become a winged aviator. Is this correct? Thanks in advance for helping out this OTS applicant.

[ViperDriver114]

Hey guys,

So I just got hiried by an F-16 unit. My eyesight is within limits (20/40 distant correctable to better than 20/20). I have been trying to find some answers on PRK.

I would like to get PRK at some point in my career (cost of contacts/glasses etc.). I know they say if you get PRK it has to be done a year before training blah blah blah, but I can't seem to find any info on if it's possible to get PRK AFTER you have been hired, whether it is after UPT or before, or whatever.

Just seeing if any one has any kind of info.

Thanks!

[13BSAM]

Check this website out USAF-RS, it will have all the details you need, as well as AFI 48-123 chapter 12 regarding refractive surgery.

To answer your question, yes you can get PRK after you've been hired, but the process is different and will effect your flight status.

[AV1AT0R]

Hi All,

Just wanted to quickly say how informative this board is. I wish I had discovered it sooner, since there is a wealth of information available that has otherwise been covered up. Although it's the internet and you can't believe everything on the internet, it's still nice to dispel some rumors that often circulate amongst the uneducated. I usually browse this forum on my downtime at work and am using what I glean from it to formulate questions for a recruiter that I may (or may not) speak to.

Formal butt-kissing introduction aside, I've read this thread (as well as others) in its entirety, and I only have one quick clarification: I read in the most recent waiver guide that you may have refractive errors up to -3.00 for sufferers of myopia. Does this mean that despite my uncorrected vision being in the neighborhood of 20/200 (according to a nurse at the eye doctor), would I not need some sort of refractive surgery since my refractive error on my prescription is less than -3.00?

I only ask because refractive surgery is particularly expensive in my area (greater D.C.) at around 5-6K. At least, that's what I figure. That's a lot of money to essentially gamble on landing a pilot slot.

Anyway, many thanks in advance to all members on this forum. I'll continue reading as much as I can to avoid starting a new, unnecessary thread.

Pete

[Guest]

I read in the most recent waiver guide that you may have refractive errors up to -3.00 for sufferers of myopia. Does this mean that despite my uncorrected vision being in the neighborhood of 20/200 (according to a nurse at the eye doctor), would I not need some sort of refractive surgery since my refractive error on my prescription is less than -3.00?

For IFC1, a -3.00 is waiverable.

The uncorrected visual acuity (20/###) doesn't matter for waivers. That information (along with plenty of other tests) needs to be documented as part of the standard testing, but it isn't part of the waiver criteria. Just as long as you are 20/20 corrected.

Don't get surgery.

[Kenny Powers]

For IFC1, a -3.00 is waiverable.

The uncorrected visual acuity (20/###) doesn't matter for waivers. That information (along with plenty of other tests) needs to be documented as part of the standard testing, but it isn't part of the waiver criteria. Just as long as you are 20/20 corrected.

Don't get surgery.

Where does the requirement 20/70 uncorrected, correctable to 20/20 for distant and 20/30 uncorrected, correctable to 20/20 for near come into play then?

EDIT FOR LINK:

I am talking about page 88 of the PDF (pg 82 of the actual document), section 6.44.7, table 6.1:

https://www.e-publish...s/AFI48-123.pdf

Edited November 5, 2012 by Kenny Powers

[Guest]

Where does the requirement 20/70 uncorrected, correctable to 20/20 for distant and 20/30 uncorrected, correctable to 20/20 for near come into play then?

That's the minimum standards to not need a waiver.

"4.3.5.7. ... Airmen with potentially waive-able disqualifying conditions have waiver requests submitted through AIMWTS."

Basically, the Air Force wants everyone considered for accession, however they can't deny you (medically) if you meet all criteria in 48-123. If you have a disqualification which could be waived (criteria in the waiver guide linked in my signature), a waiver must be submitted. Approval rates for waivers varies drastically by condition and severity, and the results of last nights crystal-ball gazing, however the waiver guide gives some statistics.

For FCI with Myopia, it appears they have a 86% waiver approval rate, which is about as high as I've seen for any diagnosis.

Read the standards for refractive error, and you'll see all the criteria. You don't need the surgery (assuming the military optometrist verifies what your civ optometrist says).

[AV1AT0R]

Sweeeeeet. This is what I wanted to hear. I'll go to my optometrist or at least get a copy of my latest prescription to see where I stand. Granted, I'll have to see if I can get one of the tests with the "gel" stuff they stick in your eye to dilate your pupil.

Anyway, thanks you two (deaddebate and Kenny Powers) for responding!

[81L BLR]

For IFC1, a -3.00 is waiverable.

The uncorrected visual acuity (20/###) doesn't matter for waivers. That information (along with plenty of other tests) needs to be documented as part of the standard testing, but it isn't part of the waiver criteria. Just as long as you are 20/20 corrected.

Don't get surgery.

This is technically correct as a book answer. However, in practice the uncorrected acuity does matter. 20/400 uncorrected visual acuity at the I FCI physical, even if the refractive error is -3.00 or less, will, most likely, not get waived for a FCI but will get returned as qualified for FCIIU.

[AV1AT0R]

So it's all kind of half by the book and half at the physician's discretion? For instance, uncorrected acuity was at 20/100 but refractive errors were within limits so that would be waived, but another with 20/350 but within refractive limits would not be waived?

[JakeFSU]

So it's all kind of half by the book and half at the physician's discretion? For instance, uncorrected acuity was at 20/100 but refractive errors were within limits so that would be waived, but another with 20/350 but within refractive limits would not be waived?

If someone has the uncorrected acuity of 20/350, then they most likely wouldn't meet the refractive limits anyways. I'm not a doctor but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn last night.

I was concerned about my visual acuity when getting my initial FC1. Once at Wright-Patt, I found out that my current prescription (-2.25) was really overcompensating and I didn't require such a strong prescription My cyclo at Wright-Patt was right at the -1.50 limits so I didn't require a waiver. Before heading to Wright-Patt, I was convinced I'd require a waiver. The letters during my cyclo were not the clearest but I could make them out. So, one word of advice when going through your FC1, if you can make out the letters even if they aren't really clear, try to identify them. They will work with you to a point. You can't just rattle off the alphabet. Take my advice with a grain of salt, my AF flying career is just getting started.

[AV1AT0R]

Hmm okay. Thanks!

I only was asking since I was thinking about getting a head start on the RS Waiver process just in case I do need it so I don't waste a whole year and end up being too old when it's all said and done (I'm 26). I may just end up visiting my optometrist to see where my vision is right now.

I see your logic, though, which is why I asked about the waiver and refractive limits. I was surprised to see mine so low for how allegedly bad my uncorrected acuity is. Granted, my prescription is geared for 20/15 acuity.

[81L BLR]

There isn't any physician's discretion. The waiver authority is AETC. Decisions are made at the MAJCOM level. When there is no formal waiver guidance, there is usually some informal guidance. In my experience 20/200 can be waived, 20/400 will not.

JakeFSU is correct that if someone is worse than 20/200 uncorrected, they most likely are worse than -3.00 and would not be waiverable anyway. See your optometrist and find out where your prescription and uncorrected vision is and then you can make a better decision.

[Guest]

There isn't any physician's discretion. The waiver authority is AETC. Decisions are made at the MAJCOM level. When there is no formal waiver guidance, there is usually some informal guidance. In my experience 20/200 can be waived, 20/400 will not.

JakeFSU is correct that if someone is worse than 20/200 uncorrected, they most likely are worse than -3.00 and would not be waiverable anyway. See your optometrist and find out where your prescription and uncorrected vision is and then you can make a better decision.

Agree with 81L BLR.

The visual acuity is NOT the waiver standard. The diopter and astigmatism cannot directly translate into a visual acuity. At best, they are rough equivalents used to communicate the prescription strength to a layman's understanding. A visual acuity should generally match what the vision prescription would indicate, but that is not what ACC/AETC/AFMC use to determine whether you will get a waiver. As you approach the limit of the waiver, there is a stronger chance that you will be over the waiver limit, as MFS/WPAFB is VERY thorough and detailed in their evaluation. This doesn't mean that the initiating base isn't as thorough, but the Air Force transitioned the FC1 approval authority to MFS to standardize the process and prevent the few (re: several dozen) flyers that maybe squeaked through when they really shouldn't've. MFS/MAJCOM is the final word, and the one that really matters; all the previous exams will just determine whether you can even be considered.

Also, if there are only so many slots available, and so many people with so many waiver requests, and you are one of the few at the absolute limit of that waiver criteria, you are more likely to be denied. With that said, Myopia is so incredibly well understood and documented, that you still have a strong chance compared to somebody with some orthopedic/musculoskeletal disorder.

Edited November 8, 2012 by deaddebate

[AV1AT0R]

Excellent answers from the both of you! I'm going to get on it and see what I come up with.

Also, The Art of Manliness is indeed an excellent blog that any man should read. It got me into straight razor shaving.

[AV1AT0R]

Hi All,

I just wanted to check back in and sort of cross-check the answer/results I've received. I talked to a recruiter a few weeks ago, and she said for me to go ahead and study for the AFOQT in addition to getting some information on my eyes (a prescription, eye exam - anything). I gave her what my most recent exam results yielded:

20/400 (uncorrected)

Prescription:

Right: Spherical: -2.50, Cylindrical: -2.50, Axis: 010

Left: -2.25, -1.75, 015 (respectively)

I guess my eyesight is much worse than I originally thought. I guess I just don't notice it because I never walk around without corrective lenses. Anyway, she ran it by the AF Reserve Surgeon General's office and they said they would likely not approve a waiver for my vision. Is that it? I'm a little too old (26) to pursue any corrective surgery without running the risk of being too old for UPT in addition to likely not qualifying from my pre-op exams.

Just wanted to check in the veil of anonymity that is the internet.

Many thanks,

Pete

[81L BLR]

Yes. That is it.

I cannot speak for the waiver authority, but I have never seen a FC I waiver for that level of myopia. There is always a possibility that you are overcorrected and the cycloplegic (dilated) refraction would be within the waiverable standard. However, that is highly unlikely. With that said, you are still young enough to get refractive surgery and have one year post surgery before your FC I evaluation. The prescription you listed is within the allowable preoperative standards. It is your money and, of course, there are no guarantees.

[mp5g]

Dude, I can't speak to the pre-op refractive requirements, that's more of a question for Motrin and Deaddebate, BUT if flying is really what you want to do, do not think you don't have time to get to UPT. If you have the means, get the surgery, get one year post op and in the meantime, visit AFRC and Guard units all over the place. Get your name out there and show them you're a good dude. Maybe you get lucky (sts) and get hired before your 1 year post op, and they submit all of your paperwork as soon as you hit that mark. Or maybe you don't, but get picked up later and they submit an ETP for you for an age waiver. I've got several buddies in UPT that have age waivers. Do not hit this hurdle and just give up if this is what you want to do. Get answers, get some options formed, and then choose which path you want to take.

[Motrin]

Yes. That is it.

I cannot speak for the waiver authority, but I have never seen a FC I waiver for that level of myopia. There is always a possibility that you are overcorrected and the cycloplegic (dilated) refraction would be within the waiverable standard. However, that is highly unlikely. With that said, you are still young enough to get refractive surgery and have one year post surgery before your FC I evaluation. The prescription you listed is within the allowable preoperative standards. It is your money and, of course, there are no guarantees.

+1

FC I unlikely without refractive surgery, you improve your chances with PRK but definitely no guarantee. As an anecdote, I have seen people do it successfully. Good luck.

[AV1AT0R]

Thanks for all the replies everyone! Apologies for a late response - I had a busy weekend.

Anyway, I kinda figured that was that. I'm still really interested and I have been for more than half my life. I don't give up easy, so I'm going to still try. I've came this far - what else have I got to lose? One of the alumni from my fraternity is in the ANG and based not too far from me. He and I have been chatting, and he'd be happy to hook me up with the right people there. The only hurdle I can see is getting corrective surgery. I'm a bit hesitant not only for my eye safety, but also because it's a fairly large financial commitment for something that cannot be guaranteed. Although I don't have a ton of time at this point, I am going to have to sit down and think about whether or not to go for it.

Once again, I thank everyone for their responses!

[swz01]

I will be turning 26 in August and wanted to know what my chances would be like for a pilot slot. As far as i know I have no disqualifying medical conditions except my vision. I am around 20/400 uncorrected with a stable -6.50/-6.00 prescription (i am myopic). I was planning on getting PRK or LASIK within the next month to get within the vision requirements. I originally wanted to join the Air Force or Navy but I decided to not pursue USAF Academy years ago because at the time vision requirements for flying positions were more strict. This has always been something I wanted to do but I chose to follow the safe path instead of going for what I really wanted.

What is the timetable like between having the surgery and seeing a military doctor? From what I understand I need to make sure the doctor doing my surgery fully documents everything. Are there differences in the documentation needed for Air Force and Navy on the day of surgery and through the recovery process? Also, what should I be doing to prepare while recovering to maximize my chances of making this happen?

I am graduating from college in a few weeks. Would a gap in employment between graduation and the day of going to OTS be a problem if I eventually go before a selection board? I was employed throughout my last two years of school.

Edited April 21, 2014 by swz01