Sleep Aids (Melatonin, Ambien)

[Guest Kawen]

Is melatonin approved for use by aircrew without the permission of a flight doc?

Also, if anybody knows of a list of approved (if any) "herbal" products that can be used by aircrew, let me know.

Thanks!

[Guest doctidy]

There's no list and you are supposed to ask your flight surgeon before taking any over the counter medication or dietary supplement.

Melatonin is not an herb, its a hormone. There are different types...some made synthetic, some natural. The dosage in any of these products is not strictly regulated...nor is the bioavailability (how much, how fast it gets into your blood stream, stays in your blood stream, etc). Have you checked into the contraindications to using it?

[Guest Kawen]

I'm a PharmD student and I'm very familiar with what you are talking about, I'm just curious as to how the AF regulates it- esp. in pilots. I have had some questions directed my way in the past few days by some pilots who either are taking it or want to take it asking me for advice. MedLine, Ovid, Pharmacotherapy, and the Herbal Product usage guidelines gave me some studies saying it is better than placebo, others saying equal effects to placebo, but the side effect profile isn't too bad (esp. when comparing to other natural products). I HATE recommending to people to take anything non-FDA regulated just b/c of that lack regulation and standardization, even lot to lot from the same manufacturer.

Since these products aren't classified as medications and aren't FDA controlled, a lot of people are getting the idea that they don't need to ask a flight doc, and I thought that it would be something that they should do and wanted to verify- I certainly think there are better drugs out there for inducing sleep and would think a flight doc would recommend something (zolpidem, temazepam, etc.) over melatonin.

edit: I should probably clarify that the pilots I am speaking of are not using or wanting to use the melatonin for jet lag (at least not yet), just for decreasing time to sleep induction as a part of a "normal" routine.

[ 21. April 2006, 17:38: Message edited by: Kawen ]

[ucf_motorcycle]

I have a hard time sleeping at night. I can fall asleep during the day with ease but that is not an option for me. I have always been very much a night person. When I take long driving trips I leave at night because I know I can drive long distance without dozing off. If I leave during the day I doze off.

I excercise regularly have a good diet and feel plenty tired at night. But many nights I toss and turn for most of the night. I try to bank on as much sleep as possible during the weekend but by the end of the week I can feel the lack of sleep catching up to me. Is there anything I can take to help me fall asleep faster without making me DNIF? Ive tried melatonin in the past and it works sometimes but sometimes not. I'm not even sure if I can take that now that I am flying so I don't. I wish the AF would take advantage of people like me and give us all night sorties but I doubt that will happen. I appreciate anyones help in this matter.

[Bishop]

Ive had troubles with sleeping at night since was a litle kid. Heres what do when I know I must be up, and cant dick around trying to fall asleep.

Go to the vitamins area of local grocery/wal-mart/blah-blah and pick up melatonin, this is a natural chemical released in the brain so it should be ok for flight status, and ill pair this with (and im not a tea person at all, but this stuff works wonders, Bigelow "Sweet Dreams" tea (the brand with the bear sleeping on it works to but annoys me there is no string). With this 1-2 punch im out like a light in about 30 minutes, give it a try, if melatonin is no go the tea works by itself as well.

[ 21. January 2007, 02:34: Message edited by: Bishop ]

[Guest tiplax]

Not sure if it's healthy but ive never had side affects: short term remedy would be benadryl. 50mg of that will give you a good 8 hrs of sleep.

[Techsan]

Originally posted by TIP:

Not sure if it's healthy but ive never had side affects: short term remedy would be benadryl. 50mg of that will give you a good 8 hrs of sleep.

Taking Benadryl as a flier makes you DNIF. You can't self medicate with that. Has it been done before? Probably. Just hope you don't have a mishap and have to piss in the bottle.

[Guest Hydro130]

Good point given that the OP is a UPT stud. UPT is NOT the time to roll the dice with self-medicating.

I'm not even sure the docs want you taking unprescribed melatonin regularly (I don't remember), but if this is a concern, just suck it up and go see the docs. You aren't going to get a black eye about doing that, but if you self-medicate or choose to do nothing and get dangerously & chronically fatigued, you are playing with fire. Seeing the docs may result in a speed bump on your road to wings, but that's a small price to pay to get the help you need.

Cheers, Hydro

[Guest tiplax]

Originally posted by C21Cowboy:

Taking Benadryl as a flier makes you DNIF. You can't self medicate with that. Has it been done before? Probably. Just hope you don't have a mishap and have to piss in the bottle.

I only took benadryl when I had poison oak and realized that it made me sleepy, never took it for sleeping. Sorry, didnt mean to miss lead anyone.

Whats DNIF?

[Guest Hydro130]

DNIF = Duties not including/involving flying, aka "med down" for the Navy types out there...

Depending on your medical status, you may be able to work your desk job or do ground-pounder stuff, but you can't perform actual flying operations.

Cheers, Hydro

[HerkFE]

Just as a side note on Benadryl. Before I was a flyer I had to take a trip across the pond as a pax. I can not sleep sitting up without some kind of drug, whether it's in a recliner or an airplane seat. I went to the pharmacy and asked what was the best non-prescription sleep aid so I could take it on the flight across. The pharmacist said to just get some Benadryl. He said it is the same ingredient as the OTC sleeping pills and it's cheaper. Checked the label and he was correct.

[ 29. January 2007, 19:05: Message edited by: HerkFE ]

[ClearedHot]

Notice the Docs are avoiding this thread like a visit to the Proctologist.

I knew execs in the Puzzle Palace who got Ambien like candy from the docs. I asked for some and was told no...i will mention in passing, being an exec drains the life from you and I felt like I never got any sleep.

Anyway, what is the standard? I need some zzz's

[Toro]

Over the counter has nothing to do with being allowed when you're on flying status. There are a crapload of over the counter medications - the only things I know of that is allowed is Motrin. It's been said already, but as a flyer you don't take anything without consulting the flight doc. I'll piggyback on C21 Cowboy's comment. Several years ago, two guys in my squadron had a mishap while doing a formation landing; on rollout, they got a slight vector into each other and touched wingtips, causing some minor damage. As soon as they shut down the engines, the safety trucks were there, and everybody involved was sent to the hospital to piss in a bottle. Eventually it would be determined that the wingman drifted into flight lead, but flight lead admitting (knowing that the urinalysis would reveal it anyway) that he had taken Nyquil the night before. The self medication had nothing to do with the accident, but he got his a$$ handed to him.

Don't self medicate, talk to the flight doc.

[Guest ACJ7464]

I know going through UPT I had to declare all medicines, vitamins, and minerals I was taking. I personally do not know the specifics on Melatonin but other supplements naturally produced by the body need to be approved by a Flight Surgeon.

[Riddller]

Notice the Docs are avoiding this thread like a visit to the Proctologist.

I did notice that! So what gives Doc(s)? Anything out there to help the current (or soon to be) fliers?

[Guest Trebuin]

Work out hard then a glass of warm milk works quite well, though it tastes terrible.

[Guest Rage_:P]

From the post, it doesn't sound like he has a medical problem.

Staying up late is a choice. Being a "late night person" is a choice. It becomes physiology when he tries to go to bed earlier. His sleep-wake cycle and the hormones that regulate it can't be turned on/off like the light switch in the room.

He probably has poor sleep habits as well. Bed is for sleeping...and, well... . Its not for watching TV or laying awake tossing and turning. If you aren't asleep after 20 min, get up, read, and try again in 1/2 hour. But, don't get up after 20 min and start pushing it up or lay there and turn on the television!

There are tons of tips on how to develop good sleep habits...check the web or talk to the FS.

[Guest F16PilotMD]

Not avoiding, just spectating for a while. Waiting for the laundry list of sleep aids to come out of the woodwork.

For most, sleep cycles are habitual and alterable. Drugs (prescription or otherwise) are the wrong answer. There are many resources available on the net and via your doc.

[Guest wildblue]

Hello all,

I graduate in a few months and will be heading to UPT. I've had a really hard time getting to sleep over the last few weeks. I've tried all the best practices listed on websites like webmd.com for getting to sleep easier and nothing has helped... I'm only getting 2-3 hours of sleep on most nights and i'm worried it's going to start affecting my grades. I am considering going to the Student Health Center and seeing if I can get some short-term help in pill form. I plan to be off the med before commissioning. (aka 2-3 months of usage max) OTC meds have not helped.

Is this a bad idea? I've already been through Brooks, but I know that the medical questions will come again one day. I don't want to create any trouble or get myself DQed. Can I take something like Ambien for a couple of months and not have it affect my future?

Thank you very much for your help!!

Disclaimer: search function used... no clear answer found

[Guest awfltdoc]

Hello all,

I graduate in a few months and will be heading to UPT. I've had a really hard time getting to sleep over the last few weeks. I've tried all the best practices listed on websites like webmd.com for getting to sleep easier and nothing has helped... I'm only getting 2-3 hours of sleep on most nights and i'm worried it's going to start affecting my grades. I am considering going to the Student Health Center and seeing if I can get some short-term help in pill form. I plan to be off the med before commissioning. (aka 2-3 months of usage max) OTC meds have not helped.

Is this a bad idea? I've already been through Brooks, but I know that the medical questions will come again one day. I don't want to create any trouble or get myself DQed. Can I take something like Ambien for a couple of months and not have it affect my future?

Thank you very much for your help!!

Disclaimer: search function used... no clear answer found

Ambien for a short time is not likely to be a big deal. In other words, I personally would not have a problem with it as long as this insomnia thing clears up. You probably don't need 2 months of ambien.

Edited September 13, 2007 by awfltdoc

[Guest wildblue]

Ambien for a short time is not likely to be a big deal. In other words, I personally would not have a problem with it as long as this insomnia thing clears up. You probably don't need 2 months of ambien.

Thank you for your reply.

Forgive me for pressing the issue, but I'm paranoid about potentially messing up my career. Am I going to be in for a lot of paperwork/further testing one day because of this short-term usage or will it not be that big of a deal? In other words, do you think I'd be better off sucking it up and dealing with it on my own?

Thanks again for your advice.

[Guest AV8RAHL]

Thank you for your reply.

Forgive me for pressing the issue, but I'm paranoid about potentially messing up my career. Am I going to be in for a lot of paperwork/further testing one day because of this short-term usage or will it not be that big of a deal? In other words, do you think I'd be better off sucking it up and dealing with it on my own?

Thanks again for your advice.

Always suck it up....I've used Ambien, but not every night and not for two months. If you are having trouble sleeping, try every other thing possible before you become drug dependent. Take it everyonce in a while, but ultimately, I'd suck it up if I were you.

[Guest wildblue]

Always suck it up....I've used Ambien, but not every night and not for two months. If you are having trouble sleeping, try every other thing possible before you become drug dependent. Take it everyonce in a while, but ultimately, I'd suck it up if I were you.

Yeah, that's the attitude that I had when I started this topic, just to suck it up and press on, but I figured that I'd check and see if there was the possibility that it wouldn't be a big deal at all. (BTW, I pulled the two months thing out of my ass, I was under the impression for whatever reason that you had to keep taking it for a while for it to be effective. My mistake.)

I decided to press on for now... but another couple of weeks of this crap and I might be singing a different tune. Thanks for your input!

Edited September 15, 2007 by wildblue

[Guest wildblue]

By the way... since it's 3am and I'm still awake does anyone have any suggestions to get to sleep?

Things I have tried:

1. Caffeine cut from diet

2. No more beer (yes, it's that serious)

3. Working out more

4. Working out less

5. No naps during the day (never did anyway)

6. Playing with the thermostat

7. Trying to fall asleep on the sofa, recliner, etc.

8. Getting out of bed and reading after a few hours of not falling asleep

9. Taking copious amounts of Benadryl and Tylenol PM

10. Waking up at the same time every morning, even weekends (ok, so I cheat sometimes on the weekends)

11. Chamomile/valerian/whatever tea

12. Warm milk

13. Soft music

14. Counting various animals

Ideas?

[Guest HercengTN]

Try melatonin. You can get it at walgreens, cvs etc.. It is the hormone

your body produces naturally to make you sleepy. I have used it occasionally

when swapping work schedules from p.m. to a.m. or visa versa. It works good

and It doesn't make you feel groggy when you wake up like most over the counter

sleep aids do. Im no MD so take my advice with a grain of salt. Just letting you know

it works for me.