Questions about Bumming

[Guest CB]

Hi all,

Recently separated from active duty and plan to be a guard bum with the 112 AOS in Pennsylvania. I just have some general questions I am hoping I can get some answers to (I think I know the answers, I just want to make sure I'm not thinking something dumb...)

First money: As I understand it each day I am on orders I will get- 1 day of: base pay, BAH type II and BAS plus any additional extra pay (for example flight pay).

Also I am told BAH and BAS is tax free. Is this true?

In addition, if I am on orders away from my unit I will get per diem for each day based on where I am. Is this correct? Just to be conservative I used the partial rate for each place when I did my "figurin". How often do most folks get partial vs full per diem? Just curious.

This may sound silly, but do I accrue leave when I am on orders? If so, how is it used?

Another question is this: I understand that if I am on orders for more than 30 days, all the same medical benefits my family got while on active duty are the same. Is this true? And, does this kick in on the 31st day or on day one if the orders state a time period for over 30 days?

Finally, I know when I head to the desert, it is tax free. I am embarrassed to say I can't remember how this works- do you get paid then without the federal taxes taken out or do you rectify this when you file your tax return?

Thanks for the answers. Hopefully I didn't miss a FAQ somewhere.

[GW]

CB-

I can't answer most of your bumming questions, as I've been on AD orders for most of my young guard career, however this does mean I can answer your deployed tax question.

What I see on my LES is a my base pay along with flight pay, bah, subsistance pay, etc. The federal and state taxes, are taken out as usual. About a week later I get another LES that says "Withheld Tax Ref" and "Other Credits".

I'm certain this will become a headache in April when I'm figuring my '04 tax return.

I was one class ahead of herkbum at CBM, welcome to the Guard!

GW

[Combat Platypus]

First money: As I understand it each day I am on orders I will get- 1 day of: base pay, BAH type II and BAS plus any additional extra pay (for example flight pay).

Also I am told BAH and BAS is tax free. Is this true?

Yes, if you’re on an active duty training day, (man day).

if I am on orders away from my unit I will get per diem for each day based on where I am. Is this correct? Just to be conservative I used the partial rate for each place when I did my "figurin". How often do most folks get partial vs full per diem? Just curious.

Yes, Full per diem if no mess ($40 apx) available i.e. off base, or depending on how your orders are written partial ($20 apx) or standard rate ($10 apx) if mess available. You can have orders written so that you get full per diem no matter what, but I've never seen more than partial. However, if you go on TDY on a civilian status you'll get full per diem no matter what. (apx. depends on the zip code)

This may sound silly, but do I accrue leave when I am on orders? If so, how is it used?

As for leave and Tricare, if you’re on orders of 30 days+ you'll accrue leave and be in the tricare system. Usually the best thing to do is to use the leave (you'll continue to get the BAH ect) or you can sell it back (you won't get the BAH ect).

As for Tricare, you can start when your orders start. The catch, their cutoff is the 20th and if you don't have your orders by then I hope you can find someone who is willing to work with you or you'll have to wait till the 20th of the next month.

Bumin' is a pain on figuring out how much money is going to be coming down the pipe when you factor in AFTP, mandays, Uta's ect. I just try to keep a folder of what I've been paid for and haven’t so I can catch mistakes and I keep enough cash to meet my basic needs.

Clear as mud?

[ 01. October 2004, 00:10: Message edited by: Shadow05 ]

[Guest AirGuardian]

"I'm certain this will become a headache in April when I'm figuring my '04 tax return." - GuardWaiver.

Not really a problem. Just subtract the number of months you were able to claim the tax-free pay periods from your overall taxable months. It's nice when you end up being only taxed on less than 20K... vs 60/70/80... you save a nice chunk of change! Hazardous pay/separation pay, child's play compared to tax-free money, but they are a nice touch so I'm not complaining...

[scoobs]

Is it possible to bum as an enlisted aviator?

[Guest WILLIO]

Aviators arent Enlisted. So no, you couldnt bum as an enlisted aviator. Now you can bum as an aviator... commissioned. Later

[scoobs]

What I mean is loadmasters or refuelers.

[Guest HercengTN]

Technically we are enlisted aircrew. But in my opinion if your not going to help the individual that posts a question dont waist your time to be a ASS to them!

Now to answer your question about bumming as an enlisted AVIATOR. It really depends on the needs of your squadron. I know a few guys who do or have done it while attending college. Your not going to become a millionaire but you can get by. You can also call to other units that fly the same type of aircraft you qualified for and let them know your interested, sometimes you'll get lucky. If you have anymore questions, and dont feel like being talked down to by some jack ass who actually took time out of his day to.......nevermind. PM me if you have anymore questions. I myself will be bumming when i get off AD in may till I finish school so if theres a question to be asked i have probablly already asked it.

PEACE! IM OUT

[scoobs]

How much can one make doing this while going to school?

[Guest HercengTN]

It all depends on how my JAATTs/GUARDLIFTS/ or other trips your unit has for the month and how many you go on. There is no way to say exactly how much you can make. It all depends on the trips and how many you go on.

[Scooter14]

If it takes a crew to fly an airplane, and the word aviate means "to fly", wouldn't all those involved in aviation be aviators?

Scoobs,

Every year, the AF times, DFas, Airman magazine, etc. publish pay tables for the military.

One of the tables is called "Drill Pay" which basically is your pay for "one weekend a month" or 4 four hour Unit Training Assembly (UTA) periods. Multiply whatever rank you use as an entering argument by 12, menaning every drill weekend in a year.

Multiply that times 2, because aircrew get 48 Additional Flying Training Periods (AFTPs) a year, which is 12 a quarter, or 4 a month, which is the same amount as your UTA periods.

Go to the monthly Active Duty pay chart, find the same rank, and divide that number by 2. There's your "two weeks a year".

Now, that's roughly the bare minimum any ANG flyer will get. If you use up your AFTPs, you will need to get Active Duty days to fly, which will give you 1/30th of your monthly pay, housing, flight pay, etc. Trips will normally be AD days, and they will also bring in per-diem (travel pay), which varies anywhere from $3.50 a day to over $100 a day.

Desert deployments will get you $150 a month hostile fire pay, even if you only are in-country one day that month, as well as a combat zone ta exclusion, which means you don't pay income tax that month.

So, as you can see, it's a complex equation. Most units like to see a flight a week, so if you are going to school, you could run it like this to max your pay...

Take a night class one day a week, or set it up to be available to fly once a week. That'll typically get you 1/4 to 1/2 of that "drill pay" I was talking about. Do your 1 weekend drill, then be available for trips Xmas break. When the summer comes, volunteer for that 45 day rotation to the desert. That takes care of the 2 weeks a year, but those 2 weeks of AD days are still available, since you did your AD on CENTCOM's tab.

Then, use those other days when you get back and now you've gotten 2 months of AD over the summer, take a break, then get ready to hit the books in September and tell all your friends what you did last summer.

This is a very generic post, and there are more intricacies to the pay system, but if I went into every detail, we'd be here all day. This will give you a general idea of what to expect.

Oh, there is a mil pay calculator on the Baseops homepage, check that out, too.

[scoobs]

Thanks for the post.Right now I am looking at joining a C-17 unit as a loadmaster.Its not just because I want a pilot slot or college tution.I plan on finishing my degree online so I could fly as much as possible.I was just seeing if I would have to get another part time job or if I could swing it.Thanks for the help.

[Guest Beavis]

Well my previous topic got shut down, so I guess I'll try to be more specific and bulletize;

Question 1: Which has more bumming opportunities ANG or AFRES?

Question 2: Which has more bumming opportunities, Heavies or Fighters?

Question 3: Anyone in here from the SCANG or with the 437th AW in Charleston? I'd like to learn more about your units and your need for pilots in the near future. Thanks.

[USMCAirWinger]

Well my previous topic got shut down, so I guess I'll try to be more specific and bulletize;

Question 1: Which has more bumming opportunities ANG or AFRES?

Guard

Question 2: Which has more bumming opportunities, Heavies or Fighters?

Heavies

Question 3: Anyone in here from the SCANG or with the 437th AW in Charleston? I'd like to learn more about your units and your need for pilots in the near future. Thanks.

Best thing would be to give them a call

We have two former Hornet dudes in my squadron. The key is to get in the system so call as many units as you can.

[amcflyboy]

The first two questions depend on how BUSY your unit is with THEIR assigned mission. You have the basic pay system (AFTP's and UTA's), and then the occasion mandays to go do something or get deployed.

I'll piggy back on what was said above by calling each unit and asking them yourself.

[Guest Beavis]

Well fellas, thanks for the responses, and for the PMs as well. I guess I'll just call the units individually and see what vibe I get from them. I figured there was going to be a lot of networking and legwork involved in this process, just wondering where to start, but I guess a simple phone call to the Ops O of the unit will get me what I need to know.

-C

[Guest AirMoose07]

Greetings from the SandBox!

I was recently selected for AMS/UPT with the ANG unit. I'm a prior tradional Guardsman and have a civilian career. While they can't "fire" me, I was wondering how willing units are to keep you on orders in between AMS, UPT and the different training. I know days and dollars are tight, but it would make it much easier to get settled in up there and not have to go back and forth to my other job.

This forum has been extremely helpful and I look forward to any insight you folks can offer!

Cheers,

AirMoose

[Guest pilotapplicant]

Congratulations!

Normally the Guard Bureau will schedule all your classes to flow efficiently from one course to the next just so they don't have to pay you any longer than necessary. You should flow right from UPT to follow on, survival then back to your unit for seasoning. The exception to this is that folks often go to AMS and then have a break. You could also have a break between IFS and UPT. I have two months between AMS and IFS and another month between IFS and UPT. At my unit you would not normally be kept on orders during these breaks. Hope that helps.

Cheers,

Pilotapplicant

[Guest AirMoose07]

Thanks! I'm hoping that since we're airlift I could somehow justify my existance there as helping out the the dropzone. Or, is there any way I could find a desk job somewhere to burn time?

[NHbound]

Thanks! I'm hoping that since we're airlift I could somehow justify my existence there as helping out the the dropzone. Or, is there any way I could find a desk job somewhere to burn time?

My unit let me make up drill days that I would miss during my year at UPT during the break between AMS and UPT. If they are willing to do it for you, that's potentially a lot of drill periods worth of pay, and all I did was study and help out around the squadron. I'm sure if you actually provide some use to them, they'll work with you to help you out.

[scoobs]

How hard is it to manage two jobs? Especially if you don't want to fly for the airlines? Is it possible to work a 9 to 5 job?

[JVBFLY]

How hard is it to manage two jobs? Especially if you don't want to fly for the airlines? Is it possible to work a 9 to 5 job?

It can be a challenge, but it certainly is possible. Many people do it.

[Guest darrin]

My unit let me make up drill days that I would miss during my year at UPT during the break between AMS and UPT. If they are willing to do it for you, that's potentially a lot of drill periods worth of pay, and all I did was study and help out around the squadron. I'm sure if you actually provide some use to them, they'll work with you to help you out.

Moose and I got picked up by the same unit. I believe that they are going to try to place us some where on man days for the break time...They offered this option to the pilot applicant that they selected last year who is now in UPT.

[hindsight2020]

How hard is it to manage two jobs? Especially if you don't want to fly for the airlines? Is it possible to work a 9 to 5 job?

9-5 a challenge it can be alright. I turned down a college teaching position for the bum lifestlye because the numbers didn't add up. Do not underestimate the full cost of commuting, many people do. In my case at the end of the day I had to either live in the small town said employer was located or commute from my unit city. The commute cost for the latter option was such that after tax income I would make more as a bum AND not have to drive 2 hours roundtrip every single day on top of that. The assumption that one can fully supplement income with the drills is also flawed. There is no real 50/50 in the guard/civi job combo. People end up leaning against one and min running the other. The only way to give true max effort to get 50/50 is to work all days of the month, good luck with that. Most of the 9-5ers in my unit are top heavy dudes, who generally min run the squadron cause even a weekend at the unit is crazy easy money (for them) and therefore worthwhile the commute expense and time, and probably don't need the extra dough as much as a 1lt does. As a young guy myself, forget it, you'd have to min run the unit. With the exception of airline gigs, most civi jobs (not to include DOD contractor jobs) want you there 9-5 which means you'll never get a day sortie during the week and won't be able to partake in the good deals or otherwise truly supplement your income without incurring into the whole "i havent sat down in my home couch on the afternoon in 21 days" scenario. As to regionals, to each their own, but screw first year pay, I have a dude in my unit that's long gone from 1st year pay and that guy hasn't still worked a trip in years he's leaning so hard on the bum thing, rather than working those supposedly "OK" post-year one regional scales. So in my opinion, as a young guy, it's a great harship managing a civilian ground job in town while attempting to have a semblance of useful participation at the unit, adding a commute of any kind to that mix is outright masoquism. Those who do like the aforementioned mix either don't like being home and/or don't have or care to have a family and time to spend outside work and travel to work, or are so rank heavy that the hassle of making it into town for those odd end UTAs and TPs is cost effective and worthwhile.

[JarheadBoom]

How hard is it to manage two jobs? Especially if you don't want to fly for the airlines? Is it possible to work a 9 to 5 job?

I worked my civilian job from May to October, while flying one weekday local every other Friday on AFTP's, by working 10-hr shifts Mon-Thurs. When I went back to work after my school tour, I told them well ahead of time that as a flyer, my AFRES job would require much more time commitment than the standard "one weekend a month, two weeks a year" Reserve gig. I made it sound like working 4 10s and having every Friday off benefitted them just as much as it benefitted me... and they didn't ask me a thing about it.

BL - it's possible (as stated already), but you WILL have to work at it.