AFRC/ANG Retirement Questions

[Scooter14]

OK, I know the traditional Guardsman does not normally receive retirement pay unitl they are 60, but, my question is this, based on a statement I heard the other day...

If you have 20 full years of retirement points (365 x 20 yrs) and you retire, do you start drawing pay immediately?

Example: Let's say you join the reserve component off AD, you've got about 10 years in, you're on MPA tours for a year or so, and then in the next 15 years or so you get those 9 full years of points, so at the end of 26 years, you've got your full load of 20 years worth of points. Can I retire the next day and get a check two weeks later?

[pcola]

Along those same lines, if someone serves 20 AD, but goes guard or reserves instead of retiring, how does that effect retirement eligibility? Can you retire from AD, draw a pension, and serve in the guard? I assume the answer is no. If you serve 10 more years in the guard, then retire, would you start receiving your pension immediately based on your 20 years AD, or your 20 years AD + your guard/reserve points?

[Scooter14]

If you serve 20 AD, and retire then serve in the Guard, there was a plan I read somewhere that accomodated this. Yo would forfeit 1/30th of your retirement pay on the days you pulled Reserve Duty.

Also, kind of in line with my first post, it is my understanding that if you serve 15 years AD, do 5 years in the ANG, then do 5 more full time AD years and retier, you can draw your 20 year AD pension immediately, then when you turn 60, your Guard points then get factored in.

Any help would be appreciated. Just when I start to get the Guard pay system figured out...

[Bergman]

Originally posted by PAB:

Also, kind of in line with my first post, it is my understanding that if you serve 15 years AD, do 5 years in the ANG, then do 5 more full time AD years and retier, you can draw your 20 year AD pension immediately, then when you turn 60, your Guard points then get factored in.

I had this discussion with our Career Enhancements Superintendant (SMSGt type) a couple of months ago. According to her, you get the "full-time" retirement as soon as your retirement points/365=20 years. So if it takes 27 years to get to that point, between prior AD, UPT, MPA tours or whatever, then that's fine. But you will still get the full time retirement.

I can email her for the reference if you like, although I believe her as she's given me good gouge before (saved me from the ROPMA board to Major and then helped expedite my PV promo). Which brings up a relevant question...have you pinned on yet PAB?!

[Guest AirGuardian]

"you get the "full-time" retirement as soon as your retirement points/365=20 years. So if it takes 27 years to get to that point, between prior AD, UPT, MPA tours or whatever, then that's fine. But you will still get the full time retirement."

Actually I thought that was correct also, but I'm not so sure about it now. Our various squadron members have been batting this one around just the other day and half believe we don't get the full retirement until 60... I logically believe we do, but then the discussion led even further down the road to benefit entitlements such as tri-care and whatnot. Got kind of ugly, so I will look into this more thoroughly after this New Year holiday once again with my unit finance people who oversee the retired folks and my NGB contacts since they understand and deal with the bucket of money that handles this...

Just when I think I had it, they pulled me back in... Those damn point sheets were handed out again recently so that's what fired up the conversation of course.

[Guest Stearmann4]

So, back to one of the original questions; if you're on active duty till 19 years, transfer to the guard (from the Army, need FWQC), by the time you return back to your unit, you've got over 20. How does that effect retirement down the line?

Better yet, will a unit even take a guy who has 20 years AFS, or is it imperitive that you get in before the dy you go over 20? Excuse my naivity, but I'm assuming you can't draw retirement pay at the same time you're doing traditional guard duty.

AirGuardian, I'd love to get my hands on a CD-rom that has some references to dig through, if you know a web site or source.

Mike-

"You evaluate whether the probability of mission success outweighs the risk, then sometimes you end up going anyway."

[Guest AirGuardian]

It is possible to retire and then get into a Guard unit, but as mentioned before they pro-rate your retirement pay for the days you work beyond your 20...

There were cases of those who had 18 or so years in the AD and then transferred to the Guard or Reserves right before 9-11, then they became activated for 2 years anyway and have received full retirement benefits. It seems our legislative governing body in the Guard is re-thinking this issue since they nickle and dimed us for such a long time. Always a hard issue with retirement and the benefits that might go with it! Definitely another ANGI 36-100 or something reg. No CD-Rom's laying around here only our Pubs CD's... Just check with your MPF folks or hunt the ANGI regs on the pub search sites! Myself, I'm just gonna call someone at the Bureau to show me which old fart puzzle they use for retirement purposes. :confused:

Just a note: Not many Guard units at all will entertain the idea of taking on someone who has had over 17 years, unless they have some special duties they could fill with their background in a 3 year AGR position. Even if it were a traditional spot, the rank structure is fairly tight at Lt Col and above. Special talents always seem to be the key besides being an exceptional "person".

[ 31. December 2004, 01:26: Message edited by: AirGuardian ]

[Guest flyboyav8or]

I've got 6 years of service as enlisted Army National Guard. If I'm selected for AD pilot or navigator, how much time will I have to put in to be eligible for retirement. Will they give me any time for my National Guard service?

[Riddller]

As far as I know, all your AD time will count towards it.

[FlyAF]

Likewise, if you do 10 years AD as a pilot, then an additional 10 in the guard as a pilot, will those 20 add up to count for retirement?

[M2]

To retire you need 20 years of either active duty time or Reserve/Guard time. The difference is when you get your benefits. If you get to 20 years of AD the you can start collecting immediately. If you accumulate 20 years of Guard/Reserve time (well, points actually) you have to wait until you are 60 to collect your benefits. From what I understand the Guard/Reserves usually stop you before you hit 18 years of AD (and sanctuary, which allows you to continue on to 20).

So you AD time will count towards your Guard retirement, but only any AD time you have in the Guard will count towards an AD retirement. For example, I was enlisted for four years, then did 18 months of USAFR (still enlisted) while in college. During that time I did two annual tours of 15 days each, which counted as AD. As such, when I was commissioned and came back on AD, I already had four years and 30 days of active duty towards retirement. As such, I only needed 15 years and 11 months to be eligible (which will be 5 Sep this year!).

So, to answer Steve D's question, yes, the difference being if you retire from AD or the Guard/Reserves. If you are a full time Guard/Reservist, then all that total time will add up to 20 years and you can retire and start collecting benefits immediately. If that Guard time isn't full time, then you can "retire" after 20 but the benefits won't start until you reach age 60.

But don't just listen to me, read what MOAA has on National Guard/Reserve Retirement Benefits here.

Cheers! M2

[ 26. March 2005, 23:28: Message edited by: MajorMadMax ]

[Guest flyboyav8or]

Thanks M2! Do you know if AD for training (basic training and AIT) count? I'm assuming so because you are considered AD at the time.

[M2]

Yep, anytime you have orders that put you on active duty (such as training or deployments), the AD clock is ticking in your favor.

Cheers! M2

[Guest CASmaster]

Can someone explain retirement for the part time crowd?

[Guest USMC*MOM]

Can someone explain retirement for the part time crowd?

Not sure what you're looking for...but basically, you can retire after 20 satisfactory years of service. HOWEVER, you do not start drawing that retirement until age 60. Basically all you have in-between is access to base amenities by virtue of your retired ID card. The Enlisted & Officers associations are trying to push legislation to lower the age to 55.

Notice I said "satisfactory" years. You have to attain a min. amount of 50 points per year. You get 4 points per UTA. You get 1 point for each Active Duty day. You also get 15 membership points - freebies that count. You don't earn 50 points...that year doesn't count. The year is based on your anniversary date. As someone said before, you have to watch those RUTA's in regards to the Fiscal year constraints. Since it's not likely for most people's anniversary date to fall on the FY (1 October), you don't want to find yourself really short on points on 10 October with a November anniversary date! Of course, you have to be really inactive not to earn your points...most people don't have to sweat it.

And, of course, mandatory retirement is age 60. However, once you have your 20 in, you'll hit the selective retention list each year, in which the Commander will determine whether or not to retain you based on a host of circumstances, to include manning/mission changes affecting the unit.

When it comes to drawing pay, that's based on your points, too. I've uploaded the chart w/ the formula to calculate the pay. Have fun with that...

Hope this helps a little!

[KWings06j]

This is a long ways out for me so I know the answer will probably change a dozen times but I'm still curious...

Right now i'm planning on doing 20 years AD (at least) and then when i'm ready to get out maybe going reserves. I'm curious though how that would work with retirement pay. I know after 20 years AD I can retire and get 50% base pay but if I go reserves do I keep accruing time to raise that percentage? I know about the points system so the time will accrue a lot slower. Can I collect the retirement pay while serving in the reserves, after leaving the reserves, or not until I turn 60 in this case? Does that extra time only boost my retirement pay once I hit 60? Am I confusing anyone else trying to explain this?

[M2]

Wings

Know a Lt Col at work who came back after retiring. I will see if I can find out more on how that worked from her and get back to you. Hang tight...

Cheers! M2

[Nanook]

Wings,

I did it. It is pretty complicated, and right now, almost impossible for a pilot.

PM me if you need specifics.

[okienav]

You need a big waiver and the one guy who is trying to get into out unit has been trying for over a year and the waiver keeps getting sent back for one reason or another.

[KWings06j]

Thanks for the quick replys. Do you know what form or waiver it is (so I can look it up)? I'm just really curious as to how the pay works out. Though like I said I have a good amount of time between now and then if I choose to follow that path so don't kill yourself trying to find info. I'm just trying to figure out all my options. Thanks for your help.

[brickhistory]

The program where guys retired from AD and then went AFR is all but shut down now. It ramped up following 9/11, worked well to bring rated guys into staff slots and let current guys fight the war. With the drawdowns and bills coming due as to who pays for what, it is damn near impossible to do it now.

To answer your question, it is my understanding that say you retired as a Lt Col from AD. Then you filled a Lt Col AFR slot. While you were working, you were paid as a Lt Col again and retired pay was stopped. Then when you retired again, your retired pay was bumped up 2.5% for each year served. You could not compete for promotion while in the retread position. That's what I remember from several years ago when a guy tried it, but I stand to be corrected by somebody with the written words.

It does not mean that things could change by the time you try, but the word in AFR now is 'fuggedaboutit.'

End strength uber alles..................

Edited December 20, 2007 by brickhistory

[Nanook]

Wings,

It is a very tough program to get through as you have to convince the Chief of the AFR that you bring something to the table that can't be done by someone already in the reserves. AFR is taking another big manning cut this year, to go along with the PBD 720 cut last year, so he's interested in keeping as many reservists employed as possible and really has limited use for retired AD folks, unless they have value added benefit. Also, if you are a regular officer, after you get by CinCAFR, then you have to convince the SecDef to let you resign you regular commission to get a reserve commission.

You get to keep your retirement and it gets paid out normally. When you do military duty in the reserves you get the retirement money you would've been paid for that day (monthly retirement/30) offset by your military pay. As a reservist you get retirement points for military duty as any other reservist. At the end of your time, those points are added up and added to your retirement when you turn 60. Say you retired at 20 years and were getting 50% retirement, then earned another 1095 retirement points (1095/365=3 years), then you'd get another 7.5% added to your retirement at age 60...bonus too if you get promoted - you get to enjoy the promo while you continue to serve and then the retirement benefit would take effect at 60 also.

No special forms to fill out, just follow a checklist (a ton of paperwork like letters of recommendation, OPRs etc) and have a unit with a position number waiting for your 1288.

Edited December 21, 2007 by Nanook

[brickhistory]

You CAN get promoted?

If nanook has good gouge, disregard my last.................

(probably good advice anytime, anywhere...........)

[Guest Sparky]

Thanks for the quick replys. Do you know what form or waiver it is (so I can look it up)? I'm just really curious as to how the pay works out. Though like I said I have a good amount of time between now and then if I choose to follow that path so don't kill yourself trying to find info. I'm just trying to figure out all my options. Thanks for your help.

Keep in mind that you would essentially be working for half price. You would still receive your retirement pay, but only for the days you did not participate in the reserves. So...if you worked 10 days in a month for the reserves, you would get paid for 10 active duty days, but would only receive 20 days of your monthly retirement pay. There is a guy at sheppard doing this, but no one recently has been approved.

Good luck

[Nanook]

Brick, yep, you can get promoted. I knew a guy who did about three years ago. I was just passed over, but I did meet the board.

Sparky, you're partially right. Since retirement pay is a percentage of base pay only, and not your full monthly pay (allowances etc), the difference is less than what you describe. Reserve days (IDT) are 1/30th base pay, 1/30 flight pay, and mandays add 1/30th each BAS and BAH (I). It works out that I still make about 2/3rds of what I would've for the day if I were a regular reservist and weren't dragging down retirement pay. Also, you're a bit off with the info on the program as I was approved in October and there's a guy who's very near approval at Keesler (if you remember a guy named Smooth from CFIC then you know him).