Interservice Transfer Questions

[Guest Stearmann4]

I'm an Army aviator trying to effect a lateral transfer to a ANG unit. Does anyone know as a rated aviator, do I have to go through all the same hoops (AFOQT) as someone going through UPT as their initial qual? Understandably, flight physicals will have to re-done, along with the normal boarding process, but what exactly transfers over for a lateral transfer aviator?

[Carpetbagger]

This post assumes you are a rated OFFICER, not a Warrant Officer. If you are already sponsored by an ANG unit, the transition will likely include going through the USAF fixed wing qual program. I am not familiar with the specifics, but you will basically progress through the T-37 or T-6, and T-1 or T-44 (unit dependent) to get your USAF fixed wing qualification. It is sort of like UPT but more of a proceed at your own pace program. The 2 Army guys I know who went through were both Majors, who spent about 8-10 months going through the fixed wing course (they were proficiency completed and advanced according to their respective skills) and then another few months going through mission qual for the Herc. There are several people on this board a little closer to the hiring and qual scheduling side than me, namely CAVOK and AirGuardian, who may have some more experience with this question. Good luck!

[Guest Stearmann4]

Thanks for the reply. You assumed incorrectly, I am a Warrant officer however, with a degree. I'm not sure if the AF/ANG has an issue with Warrants vice "regular" officers. I'm curious as to the stigma with Warrants, especially considering the fact that we're the IPs, and flight leads whereas regular officers are rarely able to maintain any proficiency (due to administrative committments) beyond monthly minimums for pay after 1LT. I digress...

My questions lies in will the ANG/AFRC make a "direct commision" to 2-1LT as the Navy/USCG does, or will I have to go through OTS?

I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I'm sure during my mission to gather the un-official gouge,(before I pursue official channels) I'll query CAVOC and the couple of other veterans who hang out here passing out wisdom.

Mery Christmas,

Mike-

[Bergman]

I don't have a reference handy to support this opinion, but my gut feeling is that you will NOT be able to direct-commission into the ANG/AF. Only medical and legal folks can get away with that, I believe.

Having said that, the commissioning program for the ANG is the good 'ol Academy of Miliary Science (AMS) in Knoxville, TN. It's a 6 week class that send you on your way as a 2Lt ready for fixed wing qual. My best guess is that's what they'll have you do, assuming you get hired by an ANG unit.

[ 25. December 2004, 23:38: Message edited by: Bergman ]

[Guest Stearmann4]

Bergman,

Thanks for the info. I was just curious if I would have to do the whole OTS thing from square one. Which, I would have no problem doing, however, but I have to arm myself with the facts before I start dragging the family all over the country.

[Bergman]

Not a problem. AMS is the ANG equivalent of OTS and is just a 6 week TDY so no need to move the family. It's the standard yelling, physical fitness, academics, etc that you woudl expect from a commissioning source.

From there you'd have to PCS for UPT/FWQ. Your FTU would be a TDY if you go heavies (C-17, -5, -135) or most likely a PCS for fighters.

[Guest Jonnymack]

Good Evening Folks,

I just joined this site today, and I have to say I'm very happy to have found it. I have a few questions concerning an interservice transfer. If anyone can help me out or steer me in the right direction I would very much appreciate it.

I am a Marine helicopter (CASEVAC) pilot with 2 combat tours down and prepping for my third. I am rapidly approaching my end of obligated service with the Marine Corps and am very interested in transfering into the USAF or ANG as an Airlift pilot.

Does anyone out there have any info on how to accomplish this goal?

Thanks for your time.

[Guest phrogpilot]

Off the subject, but hopefully somebody else will chime in here shortly and speak of their experiences switching from gold to silver wings. But did you see Lumpy was selected for the V-22 program?

I will get my stuff together for you. And here is a question for a moderator, perhaps I could post my Resume (less personal info) on this website for all those switching from Naval Aviation to Air Force Nat. Gaurd/Reserves? Would this help or is there already a posting on this website of that information (redundant)? Anybody?

[Baseops.Net]

Do you mean post an example of a Naval Aviator's Resume for those looking to transfer?

If so, I could post it on a separate page for Interservice X-fer topics. -- Of course, we would hide your personal info.

Hit the contact button at the bottom of the page and I will give you the email address to email attachments to...

[Guest meh130]

Interservice transfers are not that hard. At Maxwell, we have former Marine, Navy and Army pilots and navigators from assorted helicopters, fighters, and heavies. It depends on how much the unit needs people, and how much effort they are willing to go through to get them.

[Baseops.Net]

PhrogPilot's Resume, Cover Letter, and Admin Instructions SAMPLES are now posted at baseops.net for all to see:

www.baseops.net/transition/aviation_resume.html

there are further options at the top of the page.

Additionally, you can download the files in WORD format for easier printing...

Enjoy!

If there are any other examples that anyone would like to pony up, I will post them (we remove all personal information first).

[Guest drelyn8]

I had 2500hrs helo's, turboprop, jet's and still had to do the whole UPT program because I didn't want to wait for a FWQ slot. I was a commissioned officer in the Army Guard and didn't have any interest in the Army commissioned career path.

One of my biggest pet peeves in Army Aviation-

"I'm curious as to the stigma with Warrants, especially considering the fact that we're the IPs, and flight leads whereas regular officers are rarely able to maintain any proficiency (due to administrative committments) beyond monthly minimums for pay after 1LT. I digress..."

Young warrants thinking they deserve the respect of senior warrants just because they are a warrants. Ridiculous!

[Guest LongbowPilot]

Originally posted by drelyn8:

Young warrants thinking they deserve the respect of senior warrants just because they are a warrants. Ridiculous!

Are you kidding me? Sorry after being a WOJG in my first unit in excess of 24 months that is the worst thing a WO1 can do in a unit. Come in thinking that he owned the joint and automatically earns the respect. Sorry, that would get a quick pee pee stomping.

More commonly occurring events is a Commissioned Officer comes into the unit, immediately takes Platoon Leader position and is placed as "in charge" of a bunch of senior Warrants thinks that he is "Gods gift to aviation" and deserves the respect as a LT. He gets the sirs, but still must climb that pole of experiance and prove himself.

The stated difference is that a WO1 is protected by the Senior Warrants, but a LT will not even be covered with a plastic bag if he isn't worth a cap full of spit, and if he is stomping his Warrants, he probably will not fly a lot or even get RL1 as quickly as he could.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Imagine yourself, fresh out of FTU, in charge of a flight of aircraft and mx guys and crusty old CWO pilots with lots more aviation experience than you will probably ever have. Now imagine you get called in by the Sq/CC and are told your flight has been fvcked up for some time (before you ever got there) and he hands you a list of 10 things he expects you to change with a 30 day suspense. Now imagine you have to get all your guys together and inform them that some things are going to change around here. You're a good officer and you don't present it as "well, the commander wants to change things. I'm sure you guys won't like it. I don't like it either but you know how it goes, if the old man wants it to happen we have to do it..." INstead, you act as if your orders are your idea and you come up with the best way you can think of to get the job done. Now imagine a couple of those guys take what you tell them as you shitting all over them and they decide to resist in not so obvious but very effective ways. Remember, these are seasoned pilots and you are a Lt or junior Capt.

Then you hear your guys saying "Damn, all officers are shitty pilots who think they are God's gift to aviation and this new guy is no different. Don't worry, we'll teach him a lesson and he'll probably be fired soon just like the last three guys we didn't support."

USAF pilots have no idea what junior officers in other services have to deal with. I'm not complaining. I, like you, didn't become an Air Force pilot because the other services wouldn't take me. USAF pilots are lucky that the emphasis during your first eight (or more) years is on flying, not leading people.

[ 30. September 2006, 05:33: Message edited by: Toro ]

[Guest hawk_pilot]

What are the procedure for an IST of an already rated pilot from another branch? I'm a commissioned helo pilot from the army and I will also have a commercial fixed wing license by the time I would apply for a transfer. Would I have to start from the beginning at UPT or would I pick up at an intermediate point in the training?

[stract]

What are the procedure for an IST of an already rated pilot from another branch? I'm a commissioned helo pilot from the army and I will also have a commercial fixed wing license by the time I would apply for a transfer. Would I have to start from the beginning at UPT or would I pick up at an intermediate point in the training?

if you're going to fly helos in the AF, then you'd go to Kirtland for FTU to learn your MWS (the stage after wings are awarded but before going to your first operational unit). If you're trying for fixed wing, I don't know the answer, but I would guess you'd have to go to some portion of UPT. Now, if you also had Army fixed wing time, that might be a different story.

[brabus]

I know that at least as of 1.5 yrs ago there were helo dudes going through a fixed wing qual program at VN. I guess it was a very shortened version of UPT, but w/ a lot of the bullshit cut out.

[XL0901]

What are the procedure for an IST of an already rated pilot from another branch? I'm a commissioned helo pilot from the army and I will also have a commercial fixed wing license by the time I would apply for a transfer. Would I have to start from the beginning at UPT or would I pick up at an intermediate point in the training?

Fixed Wing Qual at UPT is running about 9 months or so (Approx). You would still go through all phases but will graduate earlier than your class. All the guys I have seen come through were going guard or reserve. I'm not sure about the process for AD.

[Guest hawk_pilot]

Fixed Wing Qual at UPT is running about 9 months or so (Approx). You would still go through all phases but will graduate earlier than your class. All the guys I have seen come through were going guard or reserve. I'm not sure about the process for AD.

What do you mean go through all the phases but graduate ahead of the class? Is it because prior aviators pick things up quicker and require fewer hours of training in each phase or is each phase literally shorter for winged aviators? How much earlier are you talking, a day or two, weeks, a month?

[brabus]

Fixed wing qual is shorter because you're already a winged pilot (albeit different service/rotary). So, you already have all the "general pilot skills," you just need to learn how to fly the fixed-wing way and the Air Force way. At VN, the FWQ guys were in their own flight/class and weren't actually a part of a "normal" UPT class. At least that's how I remember it being about 1.5 yrs ago. Regular UPT last 12 months, but according to XL, FWQ is about 9 months...so I guess that's the length you can expect (sts).

[XL0901]

Fixed wing qual is shorter because you're already a winged pilot (albeit different service/rotary). So, you already have all the "general pilot skills," you just need to learn how to fly the fixed-wing way and the Air Force way. At VN, the FWQ guys were in their own flight/class and weren't actually a part of a "normal" UPT class. At least that's how I remember it being about 1.5 yrs ago. Regular UPT last 12 months, but according to XL, FWQ is about 9 months...so I guess that's the length you can expect (sts).

Don't hold me to the 9 month thing...just my non-FWQ observation from some of the guys I knew. At XL, the FWQ guys still went through most of the academics the normal studs did, as well as most (if not all) of the T-6 program. It wasn't until phase 3 (T-1s in this case) that they started to do their own thing. The FWQ guys started T-1s like everyone else but eventually their syllabus strayed from the standard one. About halfway through they flew more with designated FWQ instructors that better knew their training and experiences. I would say they finished their program 1.5 to 2 months before the traditional studs in their T-1 class. The only thing I don't know for sure is if they did complete a shortened T-6 program or not. Also can't speak to the FWQ guys who went the fighter track...didn't know of any, think it is pretty rare.

All of the above is based on guard/reserve type folks. One could assume if you were looking to do the AD thing you would compete for aircraft like everyone else and therefore do the full program...but that is purely speculation.

Edit: Disclaimer before someone pee pee shwacks me

My info is all just observations I made in UPT...by no means the concrete info you are looking for but it should give you a rough idea of what to expect.

Edited March 30, 2009 by XL0901

[Guest Hueypilot812]

What are the procedure for an IST of an already rated pilot from another branch? I'm a commissioned helo pilot from the army and I will also have a commercial fixed wing license by the time I would apply for a transfer. Would I have to start from the beginning at UPT or would I pick up at an intermediate point in the training?

It depends on a number of things...are you trying to go ANG or AFRC? Or are you trying to switch from AD Army to AD AF? I went from ARNG to AD AF, and I didn't have 1,000 hours yet, so they made me go to UPT. ANG and AFRC units can send whoever they want to FWQ, provided they already are a rated pilot in another branch.

While FWQ students attend pilot training "with" a UPT class, they fall under a totally different syllabus, and when they are syllabus-complete, they will move on to the other phases and usually say adios to their UPT classmates (and fall in with another class). From what I remember, there are different FWQ syllabi as well; some students would complete a full-up Phase II (T-6) portion and then go on to Phase III, and others that did a Phase II short course before going on to Phase III. Now, that was in 2000-2001, so things might be different now, and even then I knew only a little about FWQ, but I had seen both types of students at Laughlin.

[Guest rotorhead]

UTSF for "interservice transfer" (all forums) or search for "rotorhead" responses.

When I was in the business, there were 4-6 ANG slots per year for FWQ, plus 4-6 slots per year for AFRES, plus 1 slot per year for AD (usually for the guy selected to go to USNTPS). UPT could be used in lieu of FWQ, but is not a requirement because you are a rated military aviator. Again, UTSF.

[hihwatha]

How is it going? I graduated in 2011 and got commissioned as a 2LT in the Army. I am currently deployed in KAF, Afghanistan and won't re-deploy till jull 2013. To be honest with you, I still cannot give up on my dream of flying. I think doing an inter serivce transfer to air force isn't totally out but I bet it would be very hard. I was just wondering if you could give me any info regarding an interservice transfer. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

V/R

[discus]

I have seen it done, but it is rare. All the guys I have seen are coming from the aviation branch. Anything is possible with the right people being in the right mood. Good luck, bro.