Outcomes of dropout/SIE (Self Initiated Elimination)

[VFR800]

Sounds like she doesn't have a f*cking clue what it's like to be a military wife (girlfriend?). LET HER GO. Is there a kid on the way? Unless you have a wife and kid pending, SIEing for some girl you're not even married to would be the dumbest idea ever. Keep in mind women come and go (YES, they do), but UPT is a once in a lifetime opportunity. You're going to hate life and want to choke yourself daily if you SIE because of her and then she dumps your ass because she expects you to be chipper and well-rested for the rest of your career. If she doesn't get it now, she never will.

If you SIE, you'll be reassigned some other career field. It's a crapshoot what you'll get. Whatever you do, get all the personal shit sorted out before UPT or it's going to f*ck you and you might even wash out because of it. The military doesn't give f*ck all about your girlfriend, so unless you have a wife and/or kid, don't expect any sympathy from anyone.

Edited October 12, 2009 by VFR800

[Wildo67]

Now at first she got a little upset when all my dates originally got moved up for IFS and UPT because coming out of OTS our initial dates were going to be AUG 2010, instead its gotten bumped up to essentially now. Well she spent a lot of the summer down here coming for a week or so and then flying back up to New York.

How has nobody spotted this little gem yet.

[old crow]

First of all I am starting this because I do not know what other thread this would go under, so please bear with me. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH I just want to have a good life where the both of us are as happy as we can be together. Thank you for listening and any help you guys can offer.

1. I want the 10 minutes of my life back that I just wasted reading this drivel.

2. Jebus...you're 29 years old! Act like a man and not a Jr.High Schooler

3. This thread needs boobies.

[chris1083x]

As someone who has spent roughly the past five years, like you, working toward a pilot slot, I'm pretty confident in saying that has been your bigger investment of the two. Your situation with your girlfriend right now is clouding all of that, but try to remember what it was like pursuing that pilot slot and never really knowing if you would one day get your shot. Remember the day you found out you finally got your slot.

These guys have all touched upon it already, but I'll throw in a couple more points. I heard/read a story about someone that SIE'd from UPT because his wife/girlfriend could not handle it, too dangerous, etc. Then it didn't even work after that, they broke up/got divorced. You don't want to be that guy. If the two of you are meant to be, you'll find a way to make it work, and that includes going to UPT. If not, there are other women out there. Millions to be exact. Some less controlling than she is, and some more controlling. But don't say she is the only one you will ever want to be with, nobody's perfect.

It sounds like you didn't date anyone after you went on that date with her in college... that right there is a troubling statement. You couldn't move on, even though she did. I'm pretty sure if you would've at least dated other women since then, you would see what we're all trying to tell you. The right girl for you isn't going to ask you to give up your dream of becoming a pilot.

[afnav]

One of my best friends in ROTC received a pilot slot and retained it through the dark years of 90-91. She had a bad physio experience at LATR, and had serious misgivings about flying. Her father was a highly-decorated THUD driver, which I'm sure encouraged her to try to go through with it. She decided in the last semester to give the slot back, and they sent her to be a human factors engineer. The AF didn't hold it against her at all. She made the best call for everyone.

For the sake of those who tried to get a flying slot, and those of us who by some miracle fell into one and succeeded, please don't waste an opportunity for someone else to earn their wings.

[Danny Noonin]

Dude, you're not thinking clearly right now. Why don't you slow down and take this a little more slowly. You are still underneath the new relationship spell with this one. Don't even think about SIE-ing now. UPT is a year long. You have plenty of time to make that decision. By then you will have seen the light and realized that this relationship won't work anyway.

If you SIE, you will face down a lifetime of misery, regardless of how hot she is. If you are going to marry this chick, then she has to have some respect for you and your dreams. According to what you wrote, she really only has respect for her own dreams, career, family, etc.

Like the other dudes have said, you're in the AF now. You can't just get out on a whim over a chick. SIE doesn't mean you are cut loose. You will simply go to missiles. Then you will be sad and lonely underground. In North Dakota. With no chicks anywhere. And it's fuking cold there.

Read some of the highlights of what you wrote and then think very carefully about what is really important to you--and I don't mean job versus girl. I mean just how much of "you" are you willing to give up for her? She told you she didn't want to be second place, but she's putting you way lower than that in her life. Just how far down her list of life priorities are you happy to sit? So far you're at least below her career, state of residence, and her mom. You may love her. That doesn't mean you will be happy with her.

Like many it has been a long road to even get where I am right now.

Well when i found out last february that i finally had my class date to go to OTS, I of course called her and she was devastated. So you finally took a step towards your dream and she's "devastated"? WTFO?

Only problem for her was me being in the air force.

Nevertheless, she thought she would be okay with the lifestyle but in the back of my mind i knew she would not be. Read this line over and over and over again. You have answered your own questions here dude. You just have to admit it.

She wants to have a real relationship and not always have me gone all the time. Lot's of us have "real" relationships and are military pilots all at the same time. "Real" has nothing to do with traveling a lot or being home all the time.

she really only ever wanted to live and NY and so that she could be close to her mother, especially when having kids.

So living close to her mother is more important than being with you? If this isn't motivation for you to run at full sprint away then I don't know what is. If you can't compete with her mom, then I swear to God you will hate your life with her.

As far as trying to marry a professional woman, yes it can be done and both dude and chick can be happy in life. I know military pilots married to doctors, lawyers, accountants, PhDs, nurses, teachers, strippers, etc. All of those chicks are actually quite successful and happy, even though it did cost them some career stability to move around for their marriage. However, they would not be happy at all if those chicks had put career before their marriage.

If she is so tied to her specific marketing gig that she isn't willing to take her MBA and do something else with it in order to be with you, then it won't work.

If you SIE for this chick, then I guaran-fukin-tee you there will be a time in your life that you will grow to hate her because she made you give up your dream. You will always feel like you sacrificed for her, but I promise she won't give you full credit for that. And that will make you bitter every day for the rest of your life.

Edited October 12, 2009 by Danny Noonin

[Guest Sandlapper]

I knew a dude that SIE'd back in the days of the Hondo Flight Screening Program for his boo-hoo'ing girlfriend. When he went back home to her, she eventually realized what a tool this guy was for giving up so easily on his dream and dumped him. Ouch.

**Disclaimer** All of the advice you're getting here is worth exactly what you're paying for it. You know the old saying about telling others your problems...80% don't give a shit, and the other 20% are glad you have them.

[snoopyeast]

Guy I knew SIE'd in part due to a woman. Now, a few years later they are no longer together and he is not flying Air Force planes. Trust me, giving up a lifelong dream to be with a woman is not a smart move. You will be wondering "what if's" for the rest of your life.

[nsplayr]

I would say she was down for at least 75% of the time...

That's my man right there...keep shooting for 100%

Seriously, shitty situation but either leave the girl or get out of the AF if still possible. If you SIE you will most likely end up Space & Missiles and a bachelor.

[Murph]

I can't believe you're 29 and acting like this. Whoever said SIE from life hit the nail on the head.

Edited October 12, 2009 by Murph

[slacker]

Noonin got it right.

If you SIE for this chick, then I guaran-fukin-tee you there will be a time in your life that you will grow to hate her because she made you give up your dream. You will always feel like you sacrificed for her, but I promise she won't give you full credit for that. And that will make you bitter every day for the rest of your life.

Worst case senario for SIE- you SIE and get married. She ends up finding a strong man, not some pussy that would give up his life long dream for a few tears, and leaves your ass. She takes half your shit and all of your manhood.

Best cas senario for SIE- you SIE and get married. She doesn't leave you. Everyday, you play the what if game in your head. 2.5 kids, a dog and a mortgage, and some crap job. You'll be the guy that always tells you how they could have been a pilot, but _________(fill in the blank). Your blank will be filled in with wifey's name instead of a DUI, bad eyes, heart problems, Flt CC rating, or whatever.

Here's what you need to do. Reach down into your pants, find your scrotum and see if there are testicles still in it. If there are you can either put them in her purse, or man up and follow your dream.

side note- do not become a writer.

Edited October 12, 2009 by slacker

[Wildo67]

I meant to say coming down for a week or so at a time. I would say she was going down for at least 75% of the time since June except for the 3 plus weeks at IFS. Yes to everyone I apologize for the lack of paragraphs.

Fixed.

Keep em coming. Yes, your goal should be 100%, accept nothing less.

Just Kidding, but seriously!

[BQZip01]

...Nevertheless, she thought she would be okay with the lifestyle but in the back of my mind i knew she would not be. She said she has really had trouble making friends and doesn't want to live in the middle of nowhere for the rest of her life, never being able tohave a career and always coming second. She wants to have a real relationship and not always have me gone all the time. And she is worried that i won't come back at all. So we talked alot and she is afraid I will miss the birth of my child and be deployed during it, miss their first words, first steps, concerts etc etc. She is afraid i won't be around for anything and that she will be left on her own to fend for herself and raise her kids. I have told her that I was sure many of the wives worked together and helped one another out. But she just says she feels so out of place and that she really only ever wanted to live and NY and so that she could be close to her mother, especially when having kids. The only two places for her career field is really NYC and LA. So nonetheless that doesn't leave me many options? Obviously there is no guarantee what plane I will be flying, where I will be flying etc? The closest base to NY is Dover and Macguire and i am sure it would be doubtful to get what you want. I would love a way to make this work for the both of us. This because over the last 5 years i have worked towards nothing but being a pilot in the AF. I have a math degree from Boston University but I have no background using it. It took me so long to earn it that I worked as a temp driver for 3 years for UPS where you work 6 months and then you are laid off after the holidays every year, no benefits. So even if I gave this all up I have no idea what i would do. Financially i would be screwed as I had a good chunk of debt coming in from school, car loan etc that I am dependent on the pay check. What I do know is that I want to marry her and that she is the only one I will ever want to be with? She says the same but is worried that she will be unhappy and bored away from NY and living somewhere in the middle of no where? So my question is really, does anyone have any options or ideas? Has anyone gone through this? What advice can i give her? I know I cannot live without her and at the same time she is afraid should i quit that i will always resent her? What happens if you DOR or SIE? do you just leave the AF? For those who say i should just find another fish in the sea or dump your gf or whatever, its not that simple and i don't think i could get through this wihtout her even if i wanted to. I know i am one of a lucky few to be in the position i am in. I just want to have a good life where the both of us are as happy as we can be together. Thank you for listening and any help you guys can offer.

1: think paragraphs, man. You CAN go back and edit your post...

2: She needs to accept that you will be moving a lot. That doesn't mean she needs to give up her old friends, but she will need to make new ones. My wife had some issues initially getting into the military lifestyle, but once you get involved, friends come naturally. The key is to get involved in SOMETHING.

3: Middle of nowhere?!? My dad's been to the middle of nowhere (well the edge of it anyway: Shemya AFB, Alaska) and the vast majority of bases aren't close. I'm in Mino and there is still plenty to do.

4:She certainly CAN have a career, it just needs to be more flexible than most. Spouses have some priorities for hiring on base, especially if they are teachers, but also for AAFES and you can progress through and make a career. Other local businesses hire too. If she's eligible for the military, you could get join spouse assignments (not a guarantee).

5: Gone all the time? Puhleeze. There are some career fields that have you deploy more than others (C-17 crew, some tanker crews, AFSOC, AWACS, and a few others pop into my mind as the high-end of deployments), but there are plenty that don't deploy often or go for short periods of time: B-52s, RC-135s, E-4s, OC-135s, UH-1s, etc. Expand your selection and you might find some better options for NOT deploying often.

6: "...afraid I will miss the birth of my child and be deployed during it, miss their first words, first steps, concerts etc etc." If you have a job with ANYONE you could miss these things, but most employers (including the Air Force) WILL work with you and try to make that not happen.

7: "She is afraid i won't be around for anything and that she will be left on her own to fend for herself and raise her kids. I have told her that I was sure many of the wives worked together and helped one another out. But she just says she feels so out of place and that she really only ever wanted to live and NY and so that she could be close to her mother, especially when having kids."

My wife felt the same way in a lot of ways, but most AF bases are near airports, so mom can come in for the birth. As with the above, there's no guarantee that she wouldn't be in upstate NY while her daughter suddenly went into labor in NYC. My second child was born with about 3 hours notice, so there was little chance for my wife's mom to be there for her. My first was born during Hurricane Katrina and we were in P-Cola; what do you think the odds were of getting a flight in there? My point is that it is a risk, but the same thing could happen if you AREN'T in the military.

8: "The only two places for her career field is really NYC and LA." I find that hard to believe. If she's a surgeon in some serious specialty of which I am unaware, maybe, but I haven't heard of anything like that. If it is such a case, perhaps it's time to find a new career? Most people change careers 3-4 times in their lifetimes. Hell, I'm still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up.

9: "I have a math degree from Boston University but I have no background using it." Computer science here, same result...

10: "So even if I gave this all up I have no idea what i would do. Financially i would be screwed as I had a good chunk of debt coming in from school, car loan etc that I am dependent on the pay check." Well, you need to consider that in your plans.

11: "What I do know is that I want to marry her and that she is the only one I will ever want to be with?" Then you need to consider that too. Decide which is more important if you have to choose between them.

12: "She says the same but is worried that she will be unhappy and bored away from NY and living somewhere in the middle of no where." I've been in the military/a military brat for my entire life (except college...but I went to a military school...). I have learned that EVERY assignment is what you make of it. I cannot emphasize that enough. I know people who are miserable down the road in Fort Walton Beach. I know people who LOVE Eielson in Alaska. You HAVE to find things to do/people to meet or you WILL be miserable. That means you have to get outside your shell and try new things...both of you. Maybe your wife likes sewing (mine does), so I ended up taking a quilting class with her. I was the only guy, but my wife met a lot of nice women in our area that shared her interests and I supported her.

13: "Has anyone gone through this? What advice can i give her? I know I cannot live without her and at the same time she is afraid should i quit that i will always resent her?" We've ALL gone through this (or many of us). She wouldn't be alone, I promise. But at the same time, you have to make the best of your situation and have a positive attitude.

14: DOR/SIE in UPT is a bad idea. I personally washed out and became a back seater, but still in the flying club. Those who SIE'd didn't fare as well, except one who spoke 7 languages including Farsi, Arabic, Pashtun, and Mandarin Chinese...she was an intel match-made-in-heaven and loves it. I cannot guarantee you'll get out of the air force either. They may keep you on as an acquisition officer, PA officer, or [shudder] comm officer.

15: "Its not that simple and i don't think i could get through this wihtout her even if i wanted to. I know i am one of a lucky few to be in the position i am in. I just want to have a good life where the both of us are as happy as we can be together. Thank you for listening and any help you guys can offer." You will have a good life (it doesn't matter where you are or what you are doing even after the AF, it will NEVER be ideal), no one can guarantee happiness, but I can guarantee the possibility of it. Where you can be together? Man, you're in the military. You're probably going to deploy somewhere (unless you are missiles or UH-1s). The question is how you manage those deployments. Set yourself up for success and choose an airframe that doesn't typically deploy a lot (don't go AWACS!!!).

Send me a message if you want. I would be happy to talk with you. My wife would also be pretty happy to talk to your gf if you want. I would also strongly suggest talking with one of chaplains on base. They specialize in this kind of stuff and can't tell ANYTHING you say to ANYONE.

I also STRONGLY suggest living on base. Camaraderie seems to be a little higher there and built-in friends are a doorstep away. You sometimes have to put more effort into off-base living to get some of the same results (sometimes not).

[brabus]

The right girl for you isn't going to ask you to give up your dream of becoming a pilot.

Shack.

You should accept the fact that you are a huge pu*sy and SIE from life.

SHACK!!!!

Dude, either quit being a complete dumbass and continue down the UPT road or completely ruin your dreams for some fucking broad that I can almost guarantee you will not stay with past 3 yrs (and I think that's being optimistic). If she doesn't accept your dreams and at least willing to work something out, then fuck her and the horse she road in on. There's other much better women out there.

[M2]

Just to dog pile here, you'd be a fucking fool to SIE for this woman. If you do, not only are you flushing your dreams down the crapper but she will have castrated you for life (even worse than you are already).

Dude, no matter how sweet she is, she is killing you. Either dump her and get on with your dreams, or hand in your man card and start wearing the sweaters she will knit for you while you clean our her cat's litter box.

Actually, in retrospect maybe you are better off that way...

[Guest Sandlapper]

If/when you SIE, and subsequently get stationed at Minot (playing Dungeons & Dragons with some turbo-nerds 2 miles underground in a silo), that's the day she'll decide that the military life REALLY isn't for her. Back to NYC & the fabulous life. At that point, you'll have your crank in one hand and a 12-sided dice in the other, wondering WTF just happened. NUT UP, dude!

[Buddy Spike]

[old crow]

Dukecush, is your relationship anything like this?

[amcflyboy]

Dukecush, is your relationship anything like this?

Dude, I just spit beer out through my nose due to total laughter on that one!!!

Edited October 13, 2009 by amcflyboy

[snafu]

1) Seriously you could do better and you should be mature enough to demand better.

2) She needs a rough man to set her straight. Give it a hard yet gentle slap and hold her down a little by her hair.

2) SIE doesn't mean you are out of the AF. Just means now both you and her are unhappy.

3) Motorboat her once. Kinda like a prop over speed scenario. This is where her emotion is stored. Think about it. Do it.

4) You should be kicked in the nads for having low SA for a) posting you are in API, and b) posting this touchy feely crap. Don't you have a male friend to talk to? JTFC.

5) Seriousness now and I am not sure why nobody else has mentioned this. Have you ever considered during this episode to contact the NY guard or CA guard? If this is where she wants to live and this is really what you want to do then try that route to make it happen. This may help you both re-evaluate time frames while you wait for applications etc. Talk to leadership to help you apply and be honest with them before you SIE.

That was tough to give a serious answer dude. I, like others, would have gladly sold my wife to get a pilot slot and my left beaner. A relationship should be very easy. My wife isn't even living with me while I train so she can further advance in her career while I advance in mine. We will meet up eventually. We see each other whenever possible and just plan things as they come. If I were you I would go to the chaplain and get someone to talk to. You obviously need some help figuring this out and he/she would be a good start.

Edited October 13, 2009 by snafu

[JarheadBoom]

If you SIE for this chick, then I guaran-fukin-tee you there will be a time in your life that you will grow to hate her because she made you give up your dream. You will always feel like you sacrificed for her, but I promise she won't give you full credit for that. And that will make you bitter every day for the rest of your life.

Best three sentences of this entire thread.

[HU&W]

1. Marry the girl you love.

2. Love the girl you marry.

3. Do what you enjoy the most.

4. Get really good at what you do.

Everything else will follow.

[Wolf424]

Maybe your wife likes sewing (mine does), so I ended up taking a quilting class with her. I was the only guy, but my wife met a lot of nice women in our area that shared her interests and I supported her.

Was this your end product BQ?

Seriously though, +1 vote for making this a Classic Thread.

Oh yeah, and SIE from life if you SIE from UPT before you even start.

[BADFNZ]

Pics of girl?

[VFR800]

CLASSIC THREAD.