Outcomes of dropout/SIE (Self Initiated Elimination)

[Clayton Bigsby]

if you flick yourself in the testicles repeatedly, it may help you go permanently DNIF (and make your erection go away). It's an old trick here in India.

[Guest croftfam]

Bender, what's the deal man? This guy your little brother or something. I understand what you're saying and all, but still... The rest of the guys on the board have a very valid point. With as seriously hard as some people are trying to get pilot slots, nobody and I mean nobody should walk into UPT without knowing for sure that they want to be a pilot.

You're right, being a pilot isn't the only reason for living, but it is the ONLY reason for going to UPT. I could be happy doing other things in the Air Force, but not if I knew there was some jerkoff who wasted the pilot slot I could have had.

Oh yeah, let me know when you hear of some pilot that got force shaped out of the Air Force against his will...

[Guest Rainman A-10]

For all you guys freaking out about this guy "taking someone's UPT slot"...

Not everyone has wanted to be a pilot their whole life.

USAFA guys have a much greater opportunity to go to pilot training. It has always been that way and, IMHBAO, that is how it should be.

Don't knock a guy who "accidentally" got a pilot slot because he had good enough numbers and the silver bullet USAFA education. The USAFA have the best shot at getting picked up for pilot training. The USAFA guys are at the front of the line, the rest of the guys compete for what's left. You should've known this if you are/were an ROTC/OTS guy competing for a slot.

I know lots of people that weren't sure they wanted to be pilots before pilot training but ended up being awesome pilots with outstanding careers.

Lots of people join the military and the want out ASAP. I think they should fulfill their ADSC and then be allowed to leave with an honorable discharge, the gratitude of our nation and support from the rest of us on the team.

[Champ Kind]

The slot is already allocated anyway, from what I understand. All they'll do is move someone with a later start date into his class.

The board selection processes are already done. I don't think they can just call the next guy on the list from the AD or AFROTC/OTS boards and say, "Hey, someone just SIE'd before their CSD.... Pack your bags son (err....daughter, too, I guess...), you're goin to UPT."

It's probably just going to be an empty seat in formal release for some class in that fiscal year. A seat that probably 15 other people, on average, were working their ass off to get into.

What a waste, in my opinion.

EDIT: gender equal opportunity

[ 01. May 2006, 09:24: Message edited by: PhlashNU04 ]

[Toasty]

Originally posted by PhlashNU04:

The slot is already allocated anyway, from what I understand. All they'll do is move someone with a later start date into his class.

The board selection processes are already done. I don't think they can just call the next guy on the list from the AD or AFROTC/OTS boards and say, "Hey, someone just SIE'd before their CSD.... Pack your bags son (err....daughter, too, I guess...), you're goin to UPT."

It's probably just going to be an empty seat in formal release for some class in that fiscal year. A seat that probably 15 other people, on average, were working their ass off to get into.

Actually, that's exactly what happens! Some ROTC guys find out within days of commissioning that they got a pilot slot because someone else SIE'd or medical DQ'd or something like that. That UPT list isn't frozen until you swear in.

[otsap]

You don't "owe" anyone, especially people who didn't get a pilot slot, a damn thing. What's the rationale here? He doesn't want his pilot spot, but because there's someone else that didn't make the cut he should stick it out for 10 years? I doubt those 10 years would be too fun for him, or more importantly, anyone who had to fly with him.

I'm 27 and just joining the AF. The 18 year old version of me had to attempt to make a decision about the rest of my life, and chose wrong. There's little doubt that happens to be the majority. It's a good thing you're figuring this out now. Go tell someone cause I would hope that if you voiced your displeasure with UPT and lack of desire, they aren't going to want you there either.

[Guest PilotKD]

Originally posted by otsap:

You don't "owe" anyone, especially people who didn't get a pilot slot, a damn thing. What's the rationale here? He doesn't want his pilot spot, but because there's someone else that didn't make the cut he should stick it out for 10 years? I doubt those 10 years would be too fun for him, or more importantly, anyone who had to fly with him.

I don't think anyone is telling him to stick it out for the next 10 years because someone else didn't make the cut. We're telling him to get out of UPT now if he doesn't want to be a pilot. Getting out of it now is a bit different than SIE'ing half way through Phase II.

[Guest KoolKat]

Originally posted by JorryFright21:

Bender, what's the deal man? This guy your little brother or something.

No. He isn't. Just a dude having a little life dilema.

Originally posted by JorryFright21:

I understand what you're saying and all, but still... The rest of the guys on the board have a very valid point.

I agree. Just because my opinions don't mesh with someone elses doesn't mean I think their thoughts aren't valid. Even if I openly disagree, and dare I say, do so in a less than tactful way. I'll try and work on that (have been for decades already, so don't go holding your breath or anything.)

Originally posted by JorryFright21:

With as seriously hard as some people are trying to get pilot slots, nobody and I mean nobody should walk into UPT without knowing for sure that they want to be a pilot.

Eh...I agree with that mostly. Most people don't know half of what military aviation is all about (myself included) until well into UPT, so sure knowing that you want to be a pilot is great, important even, but I kinda fall off the wagon at the die-hard killer, hunter pre-req prior to even starting UPT. I dunno...

Originally posted by JorryFright21:

I could be happy doing other things in the Air Force, but not if I knew there was some jerkoff who wasted the pilot slot I could have had.

Again, I understand the feeling your trying to portray. However, I don't really understand what we mean my wasting it here. If you go and decide it's really not for you, I guess you could say that. But, that slot was his...nobody elses. If he gives it up now, an alternate gets it...

I can see someone saying, I want to do this, but then after realizing what flying for the military is like (and god forbid AF training is like,) they can't handle the thought of having to do it for 10 years, when he thought he'd want to going in. I'm no pshcyologist, to state the obvious...

Oh yeah, let me know when you hear of some pilot that got force shaped out of the Air Force against his will...

You took "force shape" too literally when I made that comment. I already pointed out it was "recalled."

BENDY

EDIT: whoa...double negatives...corrected.

[ 01. May 2006, 13:06: Message edited by: Bender ]

[Jake_65_65]

This sort of deals with all of Bender's posts.

For all of you that dreamed or imagined of being a military pilot at the age of 12, 16, 20, or whatever.

Is what you currently do the same as what you imagined?

Is actually being a military aviator different from what you dreamed of, but still badass?

Just curious if the job of actually being a military pilot is different from the dream.

[Guest Hydro130]

Originally posted by Jake_65_65:

This sort of deals with all of Bender's posts.

For all of you that dreamed or imagined of being a military pilot at the age of 12, 16, 20, or whatever.

Is what you currently do the same as what you imagined?

Is actually being a military aviator different from what you dreamed of, but still badass?

Just curious if the job of actually being a military pilot is different from the dream.

It's fantastic. It's exhausting.

I was fortunate enough to be be deployed for many Bosnia ops and most of Kosovo. I saw The Desert both pre-and post-911... Many times. Mostly flying, but I did ground-pounder tours too...

Some of the coolest missions I've flown were Presidential Support (BANNER)... Many cool loctations flown to with that.

I've down low-levels through the Rockies, run Student Gap many times, and have gone VFR low to see Crazy Horse, Mount Rushmore, the Meteor Crater, Lake Powell, and yes, even the Grand Canyon... Beautiful!

I've seen canada, the UK, Germany, pretty much all of Europe, all of the Desert, and most all of the Far East (PACAF).

Yep. Not a bad gig.

It's all what you make of it! :D

Hydro

[Guest croftfam]

There is an inordinate amount of suck that goes with the job, but I still wouldn't trade it.

Last week we told some Army ground pounders that we'd take them out for some training. We were out in the training area flying low level just doing our thing, but in the back these dudes were going nuts, hootin' and hollarin' having more fun than they'd ever had. I take it for granted sometimes, but this job makes anything else I could be doing seem like poop. Definitely worth it!

[Guest KoolKat]

It's ALOT different [EDIT: for me] so far. I don't see it changing too much, only getting more bad ass...

I would be intersted to hear an opinion other than above.

What you dream of is just that, a dream. These guys work really hard, harder than a 26 year old going into UPT realizes. It's important, and dangerous.

They have too.

BENDY

[ 02. May 2006, 00:45: Message edited by: Bender ]

[Zippy]

Following along here as best I can (I think SIE = DOR, and Have no idea what 62 is other then maybe intel...), and for the most part I'm with Bender.

There is nothing wrong with having second thoughts about being a pilot before you start training- plenty of people do. There are going to be days in training where you'll have those second thoughts again... I'll admit that there were times prior to showing up to flight school that I had second thoughts... At one point I questioned whether I would like being a pilot for 10yrs (I had zero flight time at the time). Went through Navy IFS, and liked it,but didn't really miss flying when I wasn't. Got stashed for almost a year working for a government agency doing some pretty interesting things and really liked what I was doing and wasn't sure I'd enjoy flying as much as I liked the type of stuff I was exposed to there.

To those of you whose motivation and dreams have never waivered and are really die-hard, good for you but I've seen a lot of guys like that really suck, wash out, or quit... I think a lot of it had to do with the reality of where they ended up not matching with the fantasy they had built up their head. Hopefully you all have some true understanding that life as a military aviator isnt all Top Gun and Iron Eagle...

Anyways, I showed up to primary and I really liked it far more then any of the GA flying I had done prior to comming here (granted it wasnt that much). I'm far happier during the phases of training where I'm actually flying the plane- even on those days where I've had a shitty event. As for the "doesn't mean you're constantly walking around thinking this is the greatest job on earth. It's work." comment, I'll agree to the first part, but say that it's pretty ****ing cool life, and my friends and I have yet to consider what we do as work... in fact, we don't associate what we do with the paychecks we recieve... and yes I know you AF studs live in misery in flight school compared to us.

To jake, above is one perspective. To answer your question, No- where I am now is not where my imagination placed me most of the time growing up. I have friends that are living my dream- I am living the dream of some of my other friends. Dreams and reality don't always get to match... at least not right away. (Remember folks, no matter what NEEDS OF THE SERVICE outweigh all other considerations... which is, if I remember correctly, what caused the original poster to be in his position in the first place.)That being said, it's still pretty bad ass.

[ 02. May 2006, 00:55: Message edited by: Zippy ]

[Guest Rainman A-10]

My first IP at Ft Rucker was a crusty old civilian who had flown 5 tours in Vietnam and was now teaching me how to fly the mighty TH-55. He had the best perspective on flying, especially pilot training, I've ever heard...

"I'll promise you this about the next year of your life son, you will think about flying during sex more often than you'll think about sex during flying. If that isn't true you don't belong here."

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Originally posted by HerkChik:

Most moments you love being in the air (barring the instructor behind you that you really wish wasn't there because his bad mood is rubbing off on you), but that doesn't mean you're constantly walking around thinking this is the greatest job on earth.

Apparently, things have changed a bit. Pilot training (both times) was fun for me. Maybe that's because I never had an instructor behind me rubbing anything off on me. Sounds like what happpens in prison.

I did, in fact, walk around thinking it was the best job on earth for over 20 years.

Now that I'm out, I still believe it was the best job on earth.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Originally posted by Zippy:

To answer your question, No- where I am now is not where my imagination placed me most of the time growing up. I have friends that are living my dream- I am living the dream of some of my other friends.

Great perspective Zippy.

[AOF_ATC]

Originally posted by Jake_65_65:

Is actually being a military aviator different from what you dreamed of, but still badass?

This is an air force forum. We are only pilots, not "artists."

[Zippy]

Originally posted by JasonG:

This is an air force forum. We are only pilots, not "artists."

[Jake_65_65]

This is an air force forum. We are only pilots, not "artists."

You know I almost got angry, but then noticed JasonG is still in high school.

I also noticed you been registered at BaseOps.com for two months and have 91 ****ing posts.

Personally I only have 19 and have been viewing the site for a year, been registered since October '05. And do you want to know why?

Because I have taken the very good advice from guys on this forum and never pass up an opportunity to SHUT THE **** UP.

Me being just a college student I have done well for myself by following all the advice on the search function, and again never passing up the chance to STFU.

So Jason I pass along two bits of advice that have been passed along to me at one time or another.

1.Use the search function

2.Never pass up an opportunity to STFU

Cheers

[Guest TheBurt]

cafb0805,

Good on you for asking the question, I'm going to be nice because I really don't want to offend you.

STAY HOME.

[M2]

Lt SNAP

Why do you feel it is necessary to revive a thread that has been dead and buried for almost four months? Let it go...

Cheers! M2

[Dubs]

Good lord, space that bad boy out some

[magnetfreezer]

story

First of all, learn to use paragraphs. They work.

Second, if you DOR/SIE from flight training based on the last 6-9 people I knew who did, they will send you space and missiles. If your girlfriend is that controlling, she definitely won't like it when you're spending 72 hour shifts underground, with her stuck in the middle of Minot. Knew a number of guys who did exactly that - quit flight school/ROTC because of wife or girlfriend issues; in many cases, they soon ended up with neither wings or a woman since that attitude is reflective of future problems.

If she is truly the one, the stress of flight school will bring you together instead of pushing apart; if not, it will be initially painful but you will have saved yourself several more years of stress.

[skinny]

Sounds to me like you have blinders on and have this idea of this perfect life with the perfect woman and simply refuse to believe it could be any other way. Fact is there ARE other women. There are NOT extra pilot slots.

I wish you the best of luck and everything but don't let anyone else make a decision like that for you. Especially from the assholes on this forum [/sarcasm]. SIEs are just that, self-initiated. If you're not happy in the end, it's no ones fault but your own.

And for the sake of everyone's eyesight, use the damn return button every once in a while.

[speedy782]

My wife worked in NYC in advertising while I finished up college and got commissioned. Her rule was that she wouldn't give it all up unless I "put a ring on it". We got engaged right before I commissioned and got married about 5 mos later. I got moved up in UPT by 6 mos and that was a shock to us both as our honeymoon ended up being over Thanksgiving break instead of getting to take a week of leave and go somewhere. I can't say that I've been in your same situation, but the only real advertising opportunities are in large cities, and there aren't many AF bases that fit that bill. Ultimately, she moved with me and has gotten the closest job to advertising at the places we've been.

In your situation, something has to give. Either she has to give up her marketing career, you have to give up your AF dreams, or you can do the distance thing (which some people do also). I can't tell you which is best, but I can tell you that if you SIE from UPT, you will probably be cross trained into another career field and have to finish up your 4 year commitment from OTS. So your best situation is 4 years in the AF doing who knows what at who knows where. You will deploy and be gone a lot in many career fields to include pilot, and your girlfriend would have to accept that. Otherwise, you'll have to give up the AF or your girlfriend. Sorry, it sounds like a tough situation, and I can't, nor can anyone else, give you the easy answer. We can just give a few opinions.