Outcomes of dropout/SIE (Self Initiated Elimination)

[snafu]

Closest thread I can find on the topic so I will append to it.

If a couple of bro's are talking about SIE'ing out, what should they be hearing from me as guidance?

Edited October 27, 2009 by snafu

[sky_king]

Do it.

Pilot training is hard. Either be a man, work hard and don't complain or get out.

Edited October 27, 2009 by sky_king

[FlyinGrunt]

What the Captain means is: tell them that if they SIE, they will know for the rest of their lives what pu$$ies they are, and no commitment to the AF, not even the 10-yr UPT one, is worth not being able to look yourself in the mirror for the rest of your life.

[snoopyeast]

Closest thread I can find on the topic so I will append to it.

If a couple of bro's are talking about SIE'ing out, what should they be hearing from me as guidance?

I would be asking them why they want to SIE. Let's face it, some folks just weren't meant to be aviators and there's nothing wrong with that. Guy in my class SIE'd and the main reason was he realized he wasn't going to have as much time with his kids and family as a flyer. That was a good reason to me. Make sure your bro's talk to their family and FLT/CC about this decision. They will often provide a different perspective.

Now on the other hand, if they want to get out because they don't think they can master the flying thing or for another goofy reason, have them take a step back and look at the big picture. The IPs will decide if they can't be a pilot. UPT is not real flying.

UPT is a one time shot. Once you SIE, there is no second chance. If they can live just fine their next 60 years not regretting SIEing, then maybe it is a good decision. If being an AF pilot is something they have wanted since they were a little kid, shoving the SIE off the option table is a good idea.

Take it from someone who contemplated the SIE due to a bunch of personal/family issues that resulted shitty performance for a few months in UPT. It's probably not a good idea.

I got my #1 choice at #1 location and am living the American Dream. I cannot imagine what it would be like if I had gotten out...

Anyone reading this thinking about SIEing, feel free to PM me about it. Can give you my story and a those of a few bros who got out. You will think twice.

Edited October 27, 2009 by snoopyeast

[Gravedigger]

What the Captain means is: tell them that if they SIE, they will know for the rest of their lives what pu$$ies they are, and no commitment to the AF, not even the 10-yr UPT one, is worth not being able to look yourself in the mirror for the rest of your life.

This might be the single most worthless piece of advice I have ever heard.

Like was stated in the post above this one, if they want to SIE because of family, or they decided they just don't want to fly, or for some other reason along those lines...as in they will not be unhappy with their decision in 5 years, that's fine.

If they want to SIE because they think they wont pass, or are convincing themselves they are going to fail, then you need to let them know to fight as hard as they can until the Air Force decides it's time for them to go.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with SIE or washing out, as long as you can say you tried your hardest and/or are happy with your decision.

When I decided to SIE, I knew the people I actually cared about would still be there, and if somebody's opinion of me changed because of it, F them right in the A. I knew that my join-spouse situation was never going to work out if I stayed and finished UPT. Now we have been assigned together, and I can still fly as much as I want with my family in my free time. I am very happy with my decision, and know a lot of great people who have made the same decision and are also happy. I also know several people that were close to making that decision, but stayed and are absolutely certain they made the right decision. It goes both ways, and nobody on this board knows exactly whats going through your friends' minds.

Hopefully it all works out for them, good luck!

Also, let them know that their next assignment is a complete crapshoot, so make sure they are prepared to face that.

[FallingOsh]

Ok, this is my first time posting here, but I felt like I should say something to the person debating whether or not to SIE for a woman. I am a spouse, not an active duty member. That being said, I must agree with all of the guys on here. I met my husband in college and had many of my own career plans. However, I love my husband and would never have asked him to give up his dream of flying fighters. We have been married almost 13 years and I have absolutely no regrets about supporting his dream. Yes, he has been gone a lot. He has missed a lot of holidays, birthdays, and I've even had emergency surgery and not been able to contact him. He loves what he does, it is more than a job and I am incredibly proud of him. If he had given that up, which I never would have dreamed of asking him to, he never would have been happy and neither would we. We ran into his kindergarten teacher a couple of years ago and she told us that she remembered him saying in kindergarten that he wanted to fly fighters when he grew up and how proud she was that he accomplished that. Anyone who really loves someone could never ask them to give up a dream like that.

Cheers!

[Chuck17]

This thread hurts my eyes. WHAT IS WRONG WITH UPT THESE DAYS ? ? ?

 

Chuck

Edited April 13, 2016 by Chuck17

[skinny]

It may be a lost cause but has there been cases of guys picked up for OTS as a Nav/CSO and later offered a UPT slot later due to SIE's and other factors?

[brabus]

My understanding is once someone starts UPT, that slot is used, regardless of SIE, washout, etc. Basically, it's a wasted slot...hence why it annoys the hell out of people when someone starts UPT, then quits...because somewhere there was someone else who truly wanted it and didn't get the chance. Maybe they try to add a slot later in the FY, but I don't know.

[slacker]

My understanding is once someone starts UPT, that slot is used, regardless of SIE, washout, etc. Basically, it's a wasted slot...hence why it annoys the hell out of people when someone starts UPT, then quits...because somewhere there was someone else who truly wanted it and didn't get the chance. Maybe they try to add a slot later in the FY, but I don't know.

Slots are programmed with an attrition rate. Washouts, Med DQ's, SIEs are accounted for in planning the number of slots needed/available.

[skinny]

One can hope. Thanks gents...

[Gravedigger]

My understanding is once someone starts UPT, that slot is used, regardless of SIE, washout, etc. Basically, it's a wasted slot...hence why it annoys the hell out of people when someone starts UPT, then quits...because somewhere there was someone else who truly wanted it and didn't get the chance. Maybe they try to add a slot later in the FY, but I don't know.

Slacker is right about factoring in attrition. However the reason they get pissed is not because somebody who wanted a slot didn't get one, it's the fact that UPT costs a lot of money, and when you quit that money is lost. The UPT class slot that could have filled by somebody else waiting on pilot training is also lost. SIE at IFS is no big deal (that's what it's there for), Phase 1 and 2 are still not that big of a deal. They get really pissed when someone SIEs halfway through 38's...that's a big chunk o'money down the drain. And if you SIE with a guard/reserve job...that's the ultimate bitch slap.

If you want a pilot slot work hard and get one. Bottom line is getting a pilot slot (from ROTC or AFA) is really not that hard.

[skinny]

I've got the CSO slot and more than happy about it. I'll be too old once I become eligible to re-apply to UPT, just wanted to ask the question out of general curiosity. It is a damn shame for all parties involved when dudes SIE, not to mention guys like me that could have put that slot to much better use.

[BQZip01]

This might be the single most worthless piece of advice I have ever heard.

Like was stated in the post above this one, if they want to SIE because of family, or they decided they just don't want to fly, or for some other reason along those lines...as in they will not be unhappy with their decision in 5 years, that's fine.

If they want to SIE because they think they wont pass, or are convincing themselves they are going to fail, then you need to let them know to fight as hard as they can until the Air Force decides it's time for them to go.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with SIE or washing out, as long as you can say you tried your hardest and/or are happy with your decision.

When I decided to SIE, I knew the people I actually cared about would still be there, and if somebody's opinion of me changed because of it, F them right in the A. I knew that my join-spouse situation was never going to work out if I stayed and finished UPT. Now we have been assigned together, and I can still fly as much as I want with my family in my free time. I am very happy with my decision, and know a lot of great people who have made the same decision and are also happy. I also know several people that were close to making that decision, but stayed and are absolutely certain they made the right decision. It goes both ways, and nobody on this board knows exactly whats going through your friends' minds.

Hopefully it all works out for them, good luck!

Also, let them know that their next assignment is a complete crapshoot, so make sure they are prepared to face that.

I couldn't agree more. I know many guys who washed out of UPT and went on to do very well in the "back-seater" role (to include my father who retired as an O-6). I also know others who SIE'd from UPT and UNT who did superbly in follow-on career choices. The difference between these and those who didn't do well is largely attitude. Those who SIE'd knew they didn't want to fly under the circumstances of the Air Force training complex, but they still tried their hardest; they just didn't want it. Those who washed out were in the same boat: tried their hardest, but just didn't succeed. If you are bitter about the whole experience, it will reflect in your OPRs and your life-lessons.

Also, realize that if you SIE, you won't be a navigator/WSO/CSO/EWO or UAV driver (if you get intel, there's still a chance you could fly). In any case best of luck to you on your decision. Let us know how it turns out.

It may be a lost cause but has there been cases of guys picked up for OTS as a Nav/CSO and later offered a UPT slot later due to SIE's and other factors?

Yes, and there usually are a couple dozen of these each year as guys fail medical evaluations or SIE prior to the start of UPT.

[HerkDerka]

This thread hurts my fncking eyes. WHAT THE FnCK IS WRONG WITH UPT THESE DAYS ? ? ?

Chuck

You're telling me. IPs these days carry the additional duty of destroying SNAPitude. sky_king is an expert, but only because he learned from mean, pissed off herk drivers.

[deaddebate]

FYI, these AFSC's are projected to be undermanned and in demand.

14N, 17D/17S, 21R, 32E, 41A, 46F, 52R