Full time ANG?

[ecugringo]

Hey i was just wondering if you can be in the guard and be full time? i have heard stories that you can and other stories that contradict this. can anyone clarify this for me? thanks

[UPT-hopeful]

You can. Those positions are hard(er) to get, though.

[ 02. April 2005, 14:10: Message edited by: UPT-hopeful ]

[Guest FCI]

99% of the time you need to be in the unit for awhile before a full time slot opens up. Your chances of getting one as a newbie are slim to none, so don't bank on it.

[ecugringo]

well do the pay and benefits vary at all if youre a part timer? can you serve 20 yrs part time and still retire on a pension?

[Guest SnakeT38]

Full-time slots in the USAFR/ANG are luck and timing. In the ANG they are called "AGR's", and you are basically on a "greencard" just like active duty, meaning pay and benefits are pretty much the same. They do have some other "categories" of full-time but most FT pilots are AGR. In the USAFR the latest "craze" is making FT guys AGR also, same as ANG, then they

also have Civil Service jobs, your "civilain" job

is to fly whatever A/C you are assigned to just like AD, however, you are on a "GM" scale with MOST Captain types starting at a GM 12 then moving up to 13 when they make IP, OpsO/SqCC,

one or the other will usually be one part time one full, with the FT slot being a 14. "Bozz" I think is an "ART" in the A-10 RTU at BAD and can shed the latest on how much more he makes in Reserve pay that an AGR does not, Civil Servants also draw retirement at 55, with military coming at 60.................many combo's, very hard to understand BUT I still would go this route before AD!!!!!!!

[ecugringo]

ok i think i got it...but yeah ive heard many ad pilots would prefer guard if they could so thats why im goin this way. anyway thanks for the info.

oh yeah and do guard still retire with the pension as well?

[scoobs]

How hard is it to get a flying job in the GS payscale.I know that everyone has to due some sort of office work.Also snake why didn't you like AD?And can anyone tell me about the thrift savings plan.Do they put a certain amount into retirement or is it up to you.

[Guest SnakeT38]

Originally posted by scoobs:

How hard is it to get a flying job in the GS payscale.I know that everyone has to due some sort of office work.Also snake why didn't you like AD?And can anyone tell me about the thrift savings plan.Do they put a certain amount into retirement or is it up to you.

I'm afraid I would exceed the "scope" of this forum if I decided to "preach" about the AD, suffice to say my reasons are pretty much the same of the thousands that came BEFORE and AFTER me. GS payscale jobs just mean you work for US....

there are many jobs OUTSIDE the military, including most fed law enforcement, prison system,

etc.etc. Don't know about thrift savings BUT suffice it to say the fact that it took HUNDREDS of years to come up with a (401K) plan for the "Troops" was TOTALLY inexcusable.

[B-O-double-Z]

I'll take a hack at explaining the full-time Guard/Reserve options.

There are two permanent types of full-time status; Active Guard/Reserve (AGR) and Air Reserve Technician (ART)

AGR has the same pay, benefits, and retirement as the active duty. The difference is that you are part of the Guard/Reserve, and being as such, you don't have to move and endure the assignment process like the active duty.

ART duty and retirement is extremely complicated. As an ART you have two jobs. You occupy a federal civil service position and work on the GS pay grade (GS 12-15) for 40 hours a week. You also occupy a part-time military reserve position in the unit. This position pays you additionally, the same as a part-timer, in full-day and half-day increments (weekends, deployments, headquarters tasking). This is normally in addition to your civil service pay (but can be in lieu of in the case of deployments and longer TDYs).

The ART retirement is a combination of your civil service retirement (collected at age 56 for ARTs) and your AF Rerserve retirement (collected at 60). You also have a nice 401K with a match of up to 5% of your civil service salary.

Your gross pay, the combination of both "jobs," makes ART a considerably higher paying job than active duty. More of the pay is taxable. It is a lucrative career, but there are many pitfalls. You can be forced out from either the military side or the civil service side. Then there's the challenge of physically staying on flying status till you're 56.

The total compensation varies, but for most ARTs it is between $100,000 and $150,000 per year. This isn't quite airline captain's pay, but not too bad for doing something you enjoy.

And yes...these jobs are extremely hard to get...especially post 9/11 with all the furloughed airline guys flushed back into the Guard/Reserves. If you are fresh out of UPT...don't even think about it. You'll have to pay your dues as a "bum" first and get some experience. My fingers are cramping. I'll let somebody else explain "Guard/Reserve Bum."

[scoobs]

Snake it seesms that you had had a bad experience with AD.I have this question before and it seems that the heavy guys would go guard/reserves but not the fighter guys.I think that its easier to get a fighter slot AD since everyone want to go reserves.And is there flying jobs as a ART?It sounds like a good job if you can get it.

[Guest SnakeT38]

Scoobs...........I don't have a "lock" on the

market with "bad" experiences on AD.....perhaps

BOZZ cares to shed some "light" as to why he

went to the "dark side". I know his Ops Off left AD with around 14-16 years AD, had been in EVERY

conflict the A-10 had been in up to 9/11.

Fighter guys on AD will go to the Reserves just as fast as heavy drivers.........IMO THE best job you can have is a part-time fighter job and an airline job at a GOOD company.

I just read today that Continental has recalled ALL furloughees and will start hiring soon. FedEx has announced hiring plans, as well as SWA. When it really picks up the non-bonus babies start will start bailing like the "ship is sinking", the ART's will become TR's as well as the AGR's that can..............it happens EVERYTIME a large hiring boom starts..........combine this with a massive SLOW DOWN on AD if/when the wars

dictate it. When AD starts to "get rid" of pilots,

they do it in a HUGE way.

[ 03. April 2005, 15:33: Message edited by: SnakeT38 ]

[C17Driver]

Scoobs, the Thrift Savings Plan (TSP) is basically a 401(k) for federal employees. Currently AD do not get matching funds although I have heard that some civil servant types do (not sure which ones). Currently you can put up to 10% of your pay towards TSP per month. They have been raising that and we will eventually be permitted to put 100% of pay. This is before tax so you will be taxed on this at a later date when you withdraw the funds (for retirement). You can start withdrawing from TSP at 59 1/2 with no penalty.

[scoobs]

Snake would you have gone guard/reserves if you knew about it.As far as people jumping ship I think it depends on the person.And your right the reserves have become popular.That makes me nervous when are full time flyers have less quals then the reserves.

[Guest SnakeT38]

Originally posted by scoobs:

Snake would you have gone guard/reserves if you knew about it.As far as people jumping ship I think it depends on the person.And your right the reserves have become popular.That makes me nervous when are full time flyers have less quals then the reserves.

Yes I would have gone "that way" in a heartbeat,

AND it has been what I have "preached" since I started doing HS College Career nights in 93.

Don't worry........AD HAS ALWAYS been way less

experienced that Guard/Reserve......the way it should be......If you are judging your opinion of

"how good" the Guard/Reserve ARE NOW.........you should have seen the 90's..........the AD had out processing TENTS so many were leaving so fast.

[scoobs]

Now I wish that there was an easy way to get on with any unit.To get on you need a good package and lots of luck.But some people enjoy AD and it has lot of pluses.You get retirement in your mid 40's plus health benefits and full time.With reserves you have to find a second job.The airlines are not as good as they used to be and we have a long way before the majors hire again.

[ 04. April 2005, 13:23: Message edited by: scoobs ]

[Guest AirGuardian]

Slap shot at being a Guard Bum, since I was one for the past several years.

You fly or do other duty under a set of orders/man days = you get paid!!!

Flight Orders may encompass normal TDY's(trips) or local pattern work during the week or weekend depending on the unit.

Weekend Duty once a month gives you drill pay and when on flying status you can draw upon AFTP or Annual Flight Training Pay (If I recall) to assist in your endeavours to remain current. Normally AFTP's are split in half meaning half of the allocated 48 pay periods are to be done on the ground, while the other half is for dedicated flying depending upon the unit.

So, Drill Pay, AFTP's, Man-Days given to you by the unit to work on projects, Tours at the Bureau, Tours at any Active Duty facility where your talents are needed, PME schools, training requirements(UPT/Survival/Upgrade Schools/Chamber,etc.), seasoning days, 2 weeks or so annual training - and the most lucrative is being in the trip business if you're attached to an AMC mission related platform. Red Flags and other excercises seem to be the most predominant forms of extended pay in the Fighter Community other than unit mobilization...

I've turned to the dark side now that I'm a Federal Service employee full-time with my Guard unit. Known as a Technican in this case.

As whether or not AGRs are for the pilots specifically = it varies depending upon which unit you are in. Our unit is predominately technicians and the AGR's reside in the LG/Support side of the house. Others, such as the J-Stars guys at Warner Robins have mostly AGRs.

By the way, don't be discourage no matter how unlikely it is for you to pick up a full-time slot. Plenty of others will be waiting before you I'm sure, but I'd give it a shot anyway!

We just hired a newbie late last year who is a LT and makes well over $70K right now. So, it mostly likely won't happen for you, but why gamble more than double your pay. Granted, if we were to get activate and he could'nt remain on tech status - he'll drop back to LT Pay. Best deal in the house, always give it a shot and earn your position as the "Dark Horse!"

Our guy is a hard charger!!! You can't just only volunteer for all jobs, but ya gotta do'em well guys! Good luck! :D

[ 04. April 2005, 23:56: Message edited by: AirGuardian ]

[Guest SnakeT38]

Originally posted by scoobs:

Now I wish that there was an easy way to get on with any unit.To get on you need a good package and lots of luck.But some people enjoy AD and it has lot of pluses.You get retirement in your mid 40's plus health benefits and full time.With reserves you have to find a second job.The airlines are not as good as they used to be and we have a long way before the majors hire again.

Continenetal just recalled all their furloughees,and will now hire,

Jet Blue is/has been hiring, Fed Ex just announced major hiring plans, SWA continues to hire and if they go through with a 30% expansion

at Midway look for a frenzy in new pilots and planes, AirTran has bunches of new 737's coming along with more pilots, when the legacy carriers finally get through the "dark days" expansion will come AGAIN and due to thousands of scheduled

and early retirements more pilots will have to be replaced than the military currently has.....I'm not talking about ANY commuters.

[Guest brrttshwn]

It's sure nice to hear some good news about hiring. I plan on trying to get an AGR slot down the road as well; sweet deal if you can land a spot.

Is there a central listing of AGR and or technician slots on the net?

[Bergman]

Originally posted by SnakeT38:

Continenetal just recalled all their furloughees,and will now hire,

Jet Blue is/has been hiring, Fed Ex just announced major hiring plans, SWA continues to hire and if they go through with a 30% expansion

at Midway look for a frenzy in new pilots and planes, AirTran has bunches of new 737's coming along with more pilots, when the legacy carriers finally get through the "dark days" expansion will come AGAIN and due to thousands of scheduled

and early retirements more pilots will have to be replaced than the military currently has.....I'm not talking about ANY commuters.

While I agree that this is great news, it needs to be mentioned that the experience requirements will put most of these openings out of the reach for many newbies. I was surfing a little yesterday, and it seems that 1000-1500 total time and 500 multi-engine seem to be the minimums for most commuters. Most of the larger companies are in the 2000-2500 total time w/1000 PIC (i.e. aircraft commander for AF guys) hours.

A new AF pilot will finish UPT with 200-300 hours (depending on base/track/etc) and get maybe 50 hours in MQT. So you're talking about a lot of flying before being eligible.

[scoobs]

SWA,Fedex,and UPS everybody and there grandma is trying to get on.Unless you have a couple of recs from line pilots your not going to get on.Jetblue is still to new to see how stable they are.When they start paying for there busses it will be interesting to see.All I'm saying is that AD is not bad.You have a stable income and nice benefits.You don't have to worry about being furloughed or pay cuts.

[Guest SnakeT38]

Scoobs you have ALOT to learn.........go back

to the LAST BIG war (for you) that would be

DS, look and see what kind of STABLE income

and benefits guys were offered as they were SHOWN the door by the thousands, and yes they were "Furloughed" and the USAF has had RIF's MANY times before.

As I remember you are in HS........you post like it too.

As for Bergman............almost NO AD pilot that leaves after his commitment is up doesn't get a job...........those NUMBERS out there are for

the CIVILIANS that have 1000's of hours teaching people to fly at 70 MPH AND THINK, 1 hour in that plane EQUALS 1 hours in ANY Air Force aircraft, I fly with them ALL THE TIME..........

As for hiring MINS...........the most certain thing about these numbers is THEY WILL CHANGE in the right environment. When I was hired in 1987 at AA, they WERE SO DESPERATE FOR PILOTS, they LOWERED THE MINS for GUARD BABIES (you guys that go straight to UPT) to 500 TOTAL HOURS!

You can read the websites of these carriers and WAIT to apply and wonder why SOMEONE with less time gets a job...........it happens.

My son-in-law, returns from Afghan in 2 weeks and his 2 year orders are over early next year, he will start applying this fall and hasn't even

made A/C yet.

[Bergman]

Originally posted by SnakeT38:

As for Bergman............almost NO AD pilot that leaves after his commitment is up doesn't get a job...........those NUMBERS out there are for

the CIVILIANS that have 1000's of hours teaching people to fly at 70 MPH AND THINK, 1 hour in that plane EQUALS 1 hours in ANY Air Force aircraft, I fly with them ALL THE TIME..........

I was talking more about the ANG babies who think they will get hired by an airline once their post UPT/MQT days are up. I agree about the civilian hours. I'm not trying to marginalize civilian flying, but in my limited experience it doesn't compare to military flying.

As for hiring MINS...........the most certain thing about these numbers is THEY WILL CHANGE in the right environment. When I was hired in 1987 at AA, they WERE SO DESPERATE FOR PILOTS, they LOWERED THE MINS for GUARD BABIES (you guys that go straight to UPT) to 500 TOTAL HOURS!

I hope this rings true this time! I'm sitting at 500 hours total (pilot) time and thinking of applying to the airlines. Flying a desk isn't much fun.

[Guest SnakeT38]

Originally posted by USMCAirWinger:

HAHA! with AA furloughing and flowing back to Eagle by the thousands you will not see that again.

Would you like to bet your check versus mine?

[scoobs]

I would take that bet.The majors that are hiring have so much competion.There are still thousands of people on furlough.I still think AD is a good option.

[Guest AirGuardian]

At this point and time (granted things could change I guess?), the recalls have started to happen here and there. A few of the MAJORS are starting to hire again. A few of our guys just got hired by UPS and FEDEX, being the most stable of the bunch it seems thus far(SW too), especially with their newly projected increase in hiring forcasts these next few years. As a few of you know, and most of you will see - everthing will be in cycles and it all comes down to timing and it helps who you know(you can never discount that!) Maybe the MAJOR Pax carriers will drop mins, but UPS and FEDEX won't most likely. Just too many candidates out there left out(furloughed) after 911 and those behind them within the past five year window who've been waiting to apply.

Just get your hours, good flying time(heavy if possible) and AC time if you can since PIC is required by a few! Doubt you would get picked up by FedEx without PIC time... for now and many years ahead at least! No need to lower criteria if you don't have too.