Full time ANG?

[Guest JArcher00]

what did he say......inquiring minds want to know

[Guest comanche]

Basically what does he know he's a loadmaster.

[Guest KoolKat]

So... scoobs, how many 1 word posts have you edited so far, inquiring minds want to know?

BENDY has an inquiring mind.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

AGR guys never, ever work. Technicians never stop working (just look at the comp time sheets). AGR guys get the sweet ass $25K/year pilot bonus and the 20 year retirement after working 4-5 hour days (on the days they actually bother to show up) for 20 years.

Techs do all the work while AGRs are "Always Gone Relaxing".

[Guest purplecaddis]

Originally posted by scoobs:

And can you take a non flying ART job and still fly?

The short answer is yes. You can have a none flying ART job and still fly. The difference being you will not be allowed to fly in civilian status as ARTs in rated positions can do. It is rare if it ever occurs, but it is possible. We have had a few guys that have looked into positions on base that are non flying. They decided the headaches were not worth it in the long run.

[lloyd christmas]

I am real curious what she said. I wish I would have checked this site while on the road this weekend. Scoobs, even a non-educated, low-life, no real aviation job having loadmaster like myself can spot a complete tool. Thanks for all the laughs.

[scoobs]

You know nothing about me and your calling me a tool. You only know what I post on here. Just because you and commanche are stroking each doesn't bother me. I'm real scared of someone calling me names on a forum. Thats really hurts. :rolleyes:

And thanks to the others for there replys.

[ 06. November 2005, 18:35: Message edited by: scoobs ]

[lloyd christmas]

You can't pass 6th grade until you use simple grammar correctly. Have your parents check your posts before you add them to the forum.

[Guest sleepy]

ARGuardbum, comanche and scoobs...

Perhaps you all should just arm wrestle and be done with it.

[herkbum]

Play nice! Remember this board is to help people, let's not get in a pissing contest. You will lose.

[Guest indyrb]

I wanted to revive this thread a bit with a new question.

Let's say you have this scenario:

A unit is hiring a new (or a few new) technicians for a full time pilot position. From things I've read on here, the folks already that are traditional guardsmen in that unit typically have a better shot at picking up the technician slot than an outsider would.

Say there are a handful of bums in that unit that work their tails off and fly as much as possible throughout the year and there's a few solid guys that aren't able to fly quite as much because of their civilian job.

My question is: Do the bums in this case have a better shot at picking up the technician slot than the guys that already have a civilian job?

Thanks in advance for any help.

[amcflyboy]

Yes, the current bums stand a better chance of getting hired than someone off the street. They know the mission, the unit's standards, plus they've been "pledging" their loyalty to the unit. When it comes to getting hired in a guard/reserve unit, you need to "pledge" the fraternity first. That's not to say that you can't interview. Put in a packet anyway, and show them that you are interested in working fulltime with them. Now, coming from a Guard Bum who's been applying for the past 2 1/2 years, don't just give up after being rejected your first time. I'm getting ready to apply for the sixth time here very soon.

Hope this helps.

[Guest indyrb]

That's not really my question.

Say you have two traditional guardsmen within the same unit competing for the same full-time slot. One of the two is a bum, the other has a civilian job.

Would the bum have the better shot at the job since he is obviously around more than the guy who has a civilian job?

[JP84U2]

That's not really my question.

Say you have two traditional guardsmen within the same unit competing for the same full-time slot. One of the two is a bum, the other has a civilian job.

Would the bum have the better shot at the job since he is obviously around more than the guy who has a civilian job?

I would have to say that assuming all else was equal, the bum would not have any advantage over the guy with a civillian job. However, if the guy with the civi job was min running the program, not pulling his fair share, had issues with getting his beans done and was always "on somebody's list" (there's a few in every squadron) he would be at a disadvantage. There are a ton of variables here ...ymmv. From what I have seen, the bums usually get treated like shit because they rely on the squadron to earn a living.

Humps

[amcflyboy]

That's not really my question.

Say you have two traditional guardsmen within the same unit competing for the same full-time slot. One of the two is a bum, the other has a civilian job.

Would the bum have the better shot at the job since he is obviously around more than the guy who has a civilian job?

My bad, I see what you're asking.

It depends on how qualified they are, i.e. One is an Aircraft Commander, the other just a Copilot; one has been involved with a lot of projects on the base, as opposed to the other; one has been "playing politics" better than the other, etc. Yes, Guard Bums do generally get treated like shit, but that's also unit dependent. Most of the Guard Bums at my base have been hired first over Guardsmen who have a civvi job and have been doing just a little bit more than the "minimums."

Does this help now?

[Guest indyrb]

Yep, that answers my question. Thanks to both of you for the help.

[JP84U2]

AMC touched on a few of the "variables" but I think it really comes down to personality and reputation and who best "fits" the squadron. The full timers want someone they can get along with and work with for the next xx years.

Humps

[Bergman]

I wanted to revive this thread a bit with a new question.

Let's say you have this scenario:

A unit is hiring a new (or a few new) technicians for a full time pilot position. From things I've read on here, the folks already that are traditional guardsmen in that unit typically have a better shot at picking up the technician slot than an outsider would.

Say there are a handful of bums in that unit that work their tails off and fly as much as possible throughout the year and there's a few solid guys that aren't able to fly quite as much because of their civilian job.

My question is: Do the bums in this case have a better shot at picking up the technician slot than the guys that already have a civilian job?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Based on recent experience in my unit, I would say the bums do NOT have a better shot at getting hired. Three of our last four hires have had civilian jobs - and only one of those was an airline guy.

I would say that someone applying from outside the unit has ZERO chance of getting hired, unless there is some political trickery going on behind the scenes. The jobs are typically posted to give preferential hiring to current technicians, current in-state part timers, current ANG members, then anyone. So unless no one in the unit applies, there is almost no chance they will hire from outside.

[Guest AirGuardian]

So, the bottom line is there are many variables, many different units with different personalities.

Guard Bum vs Traditional Guardsman

If you're a Guard Bum, then you have no excuse for not getting hired vs a Traditional Guardsman.

(Exception: Traditional Guardsman has unique job qualities that fit the position description. Also, they are more experienced, mature, level headed decision maker and of course a better fit for the unit.) So that's your competition and most items you can work on...

The Guard Bum has the time and only lack of effort will hold you back. It takes time to be the "guy who/can do it all" but as said before that's more the fraternity stuff there - trial by fire.

NOTE: If a Guard unit is smart - Just flying alot does not indicate a good choice for Full-Time employment. Being Flexible doesn't count as much, its you're paycheck not ours... You remain flexible = We Call You its a Give & Take relationship - Being available to do the taskers nobody else wants and do it well, will get you noticed more than anything else... Double edged sword, Do something well - expect to do it again!

We have hired off-the-street in the past, but that was a rare occasion because of aircraft conversion. We did what was necessary and hired a highly experienced Active Duty EP type to start aircrew training continuity. Never say never...

Seen a few Traditionals get hired because the Bums were chasing the money and hours only. Even the Traditionals stepped up and had some additional duties. During the hiring process everything should be evaluated, so your full-time job is a big part and we know - doing a little extra goes a far, but in the end most hopefuls must wait a few years to prove themselves a worthy candidate for lifetime employment by a Guard unit. It is something we take seriously, it ain't like the Active Duty where you would eventually move far, far, away. We gots ta liv wit ya daytaday damitt...

Air Guard Gut Check:

You must combine your home life, civilian life with the Guard life and remain flexible, ready and relevant.

Flexible - Fitting the Guard in your life and understanding what commitment it takes.

Ready - Prepared for Presidential Mobilization, State leadership taskings, etc. if you're completely surprised, you don't need to be with us...

Relevant - Fly above bare minimum, remain Current, do the best job you can AND do other additional duties besides flying. Bring outside civilian experience to the table if you're a traditional.

Bringing this to a boil finally. Having thought about the Gut Check in some form or another with more items I'm sure, you won't be steered wrong on how you pursue your Guard career.

By the way, Kissing it doesn't help - By doing extra taskers and such others may think you are, but if you do those tasks exceptionally well - that will speak for itself.

Technician Gig - It's such a good racket... enjoying it thoroughly ever since the enlisted folks taught me how to "maximize your pay" years ago... Don't trust the "O's" on this, go learn from your loads, etc..

AG

Edited February 28, 2009 by AirGuardian

[Square]

Second old thread I've resurrected in the last few days.

I'm looking at an ART position... I get the difference between ART/AGR/Traditional. I know ART has the duel civil/military retirement, but I know in some fed jobs its possible to buy military time towards a civil retirement. Does anyone ever do that as a technician?

[hindsight2020]

Second old thread I've resurrected in the last few days.

I'm looking at an ART position... I get the difference between ART/AGR/Traditional. I know ART has the duel civil/military retirement, but I know in some fed jobs its possible to buy military time towards a civil retirement. Does anyone ever do that as a technician?

Lots of people with AD service behind them do it. People with Active duty service time usually do that upon entering the civil service. They "buy back" their creditable years of active duty service so that they can count it towards creditable years of civil service for retirement purposes; which is of course how the 1/3 of the civil service retirement gets calculated from (the annuity portion...1% per creditable year times your high three salaries career-wise..or is it latest three?....oh hell who cares, it ain't the CSRS cheddar primo 75% pension anymore so who are we foolin'...TSP can suck it.)

The option of buying back those years is penalty-free for a couple of years from your starting date as a civil servant. Basically it's a grace period where you can "mull over" the idea of buying back your active duty service years. After that period and every month/year thereafter, the decision to buy back those AD years incurs penalties. The longer you wait, the more expensive it becomes to buy back your AD time.

Of course the concept is that you will not be able to attain an AD retirement so you elect to buy back that time towards a civil service retirment. If you have an AD retirement you cannot buy back your AD service years towards a civil service retirment. Of course this is a moot point for ARTs/AGRs, as you cannot be employed as an ART if you are AD retired. Some people have done so but there's money that gets discounted from your AD retirement check for every day you work in the reserves while AD retired. As such, nobody pursues those oddball setups, it's a money loser.

If you're close to an AD retirement you might be better off seeking an AGR and attempting to reach sanctuary. Of course, the unit and AFRC in general is going to watch your manday accrual like a hawk, they don't want to allow you to fund an AD retirement off the Reserve gig, if they can help it. But some people are able to swing it.

At any rate, that's pretty much the skinny on it.

[Square]

Lots of people with AD service behind them do it. People with Active duty service time usually do that upon entering the civil service. They "buy back" their creditable years of active duty service so that they can count it towards creditable years of civil service for retirement purposes; which is of course how the 1/3 of the civil service retirement gets calculated from (the annuity portion...1% per creditable year times your high three salaries career-wise..or is it latest three?....oh hell who cares, it ain't the CSRS cheddar primo 75% pension anymore so who are we foolin'...TSP can suck it.)

The option of buying back those years is penalty-free for a couple of years from your starting date as a civil servant. Basically it's a grace period where you can "mull over" the idea of buying back your active duty service years. After that period and every month/year thereafter, the decision to buy back those AD years incurs penalties. The longer you wait, the more expensive it becomes to buy back your AD time.

Of course the concept is that you will not be able to attain an AD retirement so you elect to buy back that time towards a civil service retirment. If you have an AD retirement you cannot buy back your AD service years towards a civil service retirment. Of course this is a moot point for ARTs/AGRs, as you cannot be employed as an ART if you are AD retired. Some people have done so but there's money that gets discounted from your AD retirement check for every day you work in the reserves while AD retired. As such, nobody pursues those oddball setups, it's a money loser.

If you're close to an AD retirement you might be better off seeking an AGR and attempting to reach sanctuary. Of course, the unit and AFRC in general is going to watch your manday accrual like a hawk, they don't want to allow you to fund an AD retirement off the Reserve gig, if they can help it. But some people are able to swing it.

At any rate, that's pretty much the skinny on it.

Thanks much. I'm some ways away from any kind of retirement at all, but in trying to figure out whether to jump ship to the guard side of the house this is the sort of thing to think about.

[Guest Okawner]

If you're close to an AD retirement you might be better off seeking an AGR and attempting to reach sanctuary. Of course, the unit and AFRC in general is going to watch your manday accrual like a hawk, they don't want to allow you to fund an AD retirement off the Reserve gig, if they can help it. But some people are able to swing it.

So I get the distinct impression that dudes that bail AD after 15+ years or so are frowned upon as far as getting the 20 yr "AD" retirement from a Guard/Reserve gig? I'm considering trying to switch over after about 17.5 yrs of AD, but I don't know about getting into a full time slot right away and I don't want to hit 20 yrs of service as a part timer. What's the smart play? Any way to get service credit as a part timer that will set me up for an AD retirement?

[Guest]

Any way to get service credit as a part timer that will set me up for an AD retirement?

If you mean can you get service credit to start collecting as if you had stayed on active duty...no.

There are ways to retire and then become part of the ARC. The rules/programs change based in needs and they are usually targeted to an individual that the unit can justify a request for a specific skill set. Typically you have to give back your retirement pay on any day you are working in an official capacity. That means it costs you money just to walk in the door to your ARC unit.

[hindsight2020]

If you mean can you get service credit to start collecting as if you had stayed on active duty...no.

There are ways to retire and then become part of the ARC. The rules/programs change based in needs and they are usually targeted to an individual that the unit can justify a request for a specific skill set. Typically you have to give back your retirement pay on any day you are working in an official capacity. That means it costs you money just to walk in the door to your ARC unit.

Bingo.

--break break--

Additionally, for the guy with 17.5 in, no way in hell a unit is gonna willy nilly gonna let you walk in and go on a set of 6 month orders (RPA/MPA) and reach sanctuary on their watch; they're gonna watch you like a hawk. Alternatively, they might make you sign a conditional agreement where you agree to waive sanctuary, as a condition of employment with the unit. For a guy with 17.5 years? Yeah right, he'll rather stay AD. There's no way life can get that much tougher for a guy in the last two years of service staring at a primo retirement check for life. If you got less than 3 years to go, man just tough it out. Yeah they'll probably deploy you, just think of the prize.

Now, if your thinking process is that you're just addicted to the gig and want to continue to do it 'til they kick you out the door, and that's worth more to you than an AD retirement check, by all means go Reserves, sign that waiver of sanctuary away, and keep hacking the mish for king and country. I warn you though, grass in the AFRC/ANG is starting to burn up. Google TFI (total force integration) and talk to people who have otherwise been lifers in the ARC and get their perspective on the abortion they're committing on the Reserves. This ain't your grandaddy's guard/reserve gig anymore. It's part time regAF brother. Old timers are jumping ship and more and more just-off-AD guys are taking their place, "just happy I don't have to deploy anymore", and accepting the AD way of doing things and the chit deals and disco belt shenanigans. Just be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.