ANG Fighter Pilot Lifestyle

[Guest Rainman A-10]

You guys are harsh.

I'll add a little different tone. The LPA is small in an ANG fighter squadron. I think it is hard to be a Lt in a Guard fighter squadron, especially if there are a bunch of old school full timers milling about. The Lts get sh!t on to do things you would expect from a normal AD Lt. Things like...clean and stock the bar, paint a patch on the wall in squadron room at Red Flag, answer the EP of the day, show up and hang around the ops desk before every mass brief so we don't have to go looking for you (or worse, cancel a sortie) when someone calls in sick or forgets they had a trip. So, from the Lts perspective, they get their dream shot, go to pilot training where everyone tells them how lucky they are because they are in the Guard and don't have to compete for anything. They are cut all kinds of slack in all their training because no one cares about the Guard guy when he screws up, it's their unit's problem to fix them over the next 30 years.

So a kid finally walks into his squadron feeling 10 feet tall with 508 seasoning days ahead of him and the impression he is God's gift to aviation. He dreams really are coming true. He is positive he will get offered a full time position when Joe Bag-o-donuts full timer retires in two years. There are all these airline guys hanging around talking about their great lives in front of him (the Lts don't get to listen to the quieter conversations when the guys huddle in the Flt CCs offices and ask each other if they think their A/B funds are safe or if the stock options will ever be worth more than $1.10 a share or if the company will still be around in 18 months or how the work rules have become so tough that it is really hard to even think about walking away from the wife and kids for 1/2 a day to get a fight-tank-fight at the "F-ing Guard" as their wife likes to call it). The Lt is sure that his fantastic squadron mates with their airline pirate stories about far flung drunken travels with Jack and Coke and super hot hostitutes will personally introduce them to the chief pilot of every major airline the very day he gets enough hours.

Then they walk into the blast furnace. It's not really a blast furnace but it seems like it to them. They see AD patch wearers coming around to interview for the full time positions and the Lts think they are getting screwed by the unit for not offering them the full time job. They also find out that there are not enough days coming down from the Guard Bureau for everyone to get their sorties. All the commanders talk about is "where are we going to get the days for this and that"...suddenly the hopes of "Guard Bumming" are dashed and that expensive new signature "That's right ladies...I'm a FIGHTER PILOT" sports car, Top Gun motorcycle, expensive boat and three bedroom house seem like a bad idea.

To top it all off, they are getting sh!t on for...not being on the right freq, when they are on the right freq they say the wrong thing, not being in position, missing the target, making switch errors, not knowing the threats, screwing up the EP, not being at the ops desk, the bar is dirty, we're out of beer, why aren't you in the vault...

The intensity of the crap seems to go up as the number of seasoning days gets shorter. Now it looks like I won't become a flight lead before my seasoning days are over. My Flight Commander is asking me what I plan to do for a job in four months when the unit cuts the cord. A job? Are they serious? Am I really not going to get paid to come in and study and fly and drink beer anymore? This is my job! I'm a fighter pilot! Haven't they seen my car and motorcycle and boat and big ass house? WTFO?!

Maybe I can go on active duty for a year or two and get some upgrades and then come back to the unit to compete for one of the full time instructor positions. My flight commander thinks that's a good idea and he gives me the phone number of the fighter assignments guy at Randolph. What, you're not taking Guard Babies into the active duty fighter squadrons...in fact AD guys are allowed to Palace Chase into the Guard at will right now? Wait a second, when I was "on active duty" during all my training everyone told me how lucky I was to be going to the guard. Why won't they let me suck up the bad deals on AD?

Holy Crap, this isn't how my dream is supposed to end!

That's what ANG fighter pilot life can be like for a young guy.

[Guest flecth033]

Never heard it from that perspective. Always hear the ups of the job, never the downs. So are the chances of going active duty for awhile from the guard pretty hard to get? I was always wondering if if things got boring or tough financially after seasoning if a dude could go active for a few years and then return to their unit, but it sounds like a difficult process. Thanks for the info.

[Guest SHAVED DOG'S ASS]

Thanks for the words Snake and Bozz. I start FTU at D-M in July, just gotta get through IFF first. Moodys the only thing standing between me and the Hog...

That was an interesting take on the guard as ab LT Rainman. I haven't heard that side of it either. I guess to pull off the guard bum thing you gotta first find a chick that brings in the cash!

[Whitman]

Great advice from the old heads out there.

[Bergman]

RAINMAN,

B-R-A-V-O!

You are 100% correct. I have watched it happen with copilots in my tanker unit and have several good friends (F-16 guys) who are going through the EXACT cycle you wrote about!! One of my friends in particular calls every week saying things like "Yeah, I went up for a 4 ship...3 patch wears, 2 of whom were O-6s, then me...so, I got my ass handed to me again!" He's been back at his unit for 6 months and desperately wants to go "back on AD..like at Luke!" but AFPC isn't having any of that.

Again, great post. "The truth is out there"

[Bergman]

Originally posted by flyguy:

So are the chances of going active duty for awhile from the guard pretty hard to get?

Dare I say: IMPOSSIBLE TO GET. Unless you are a C-17, MH-53, or U-2 IP! There is a list of AFSCs/aircraft they are allowing back on AD but it is a very short list and pretty much for IPs only.

Stick around 4-5 years...that will change. 2 years ago, ANYONE could go back on AD. The pendulum will swing that way again in a few years. Just wait it out if that's what you really want.

[Whitman]

That's really weird. I was under the impression that AD takes any qualified pilot at any time. That kinda sucks for the young fighter ANG pilots with not enough time to go airlines and not enough flying to make ends meet.

[Guest SnakeT38]

Stick around 4-5 years...that will change. 2 years ago, ANYONE could go back on AD. The pendulum will swing that way again in a few years. Just wait it out if that's what you really want. [/QB]

[MT near]

im confused....

F-16 guard guys wanna go back to active duty because they get beat in BFM with older guys with more experiance?? I thought having great guys to learn from made better pilots??

I guess I just dont understand what you mean berg...Im not being a smartass

[Guest SHAVED DOG'S ASS]

He probally got his "ass handed" to him in the brief and debriefing... Some people can just make life in the squadron suck. It may have nothing to do with what goes on during actual flying.

[Guest AirGuardian]

For the younger ones coming on line in the fighter/whatever else you want community(that's me I guess on the later, ha!).

Be it known, your future as a fighter pilot is limited and as BOZZ said - make the best of it for you will be in songs of yesteryear when future generations will wonder in awe with the "manned aerial vehicle" that once was. You can push it like a true fighter pilot, but I leave the bravado to BOZZ, Rainman A-10, SnakeT38, etc. (you know who you are), when it was not such a "kindler, gentler, feel happy kind of AF... When Tailhooks, etc. were synonomous with just having a good time and not career ending decisions. Actual flesh peeling at the O'club and other squadron (ON BASE) functions, where these men could push it up and at the worst wake up in a ditch/poke somewhere with little reprimand, but more so praise.

I know many would like to grow up to be like them, but unless MJ(not Michael Jackson) comes back along with smoking areas and places during PME where I can chew and spit again(got slammed in ACSC on a daily basis on that one...) ; the Bozzer, Rainmaster, Snake-eater will remain the essence of what was possible, rather than acceptable/whatever!

Keep at it and always push it up! I don't need a raw egg, just pass the Jeremiah!!!

[Guest SnakeT38]

"Be it known, your future as a fighter pilot is limited and as BOZZ said - make the best of it for you will be in songs of yesteryear when future generations will wonder in awe with the "manned aerial vehicle" that once was. You can push it like a true fighter pilot, but I leave the bravado to BOZZ, Rainman A-10, SnakeT38, etc. (you know who you are), when it was not such a "kindler, gentler, feel happy kind of AF... When Tailhooks, etc. were synonomous with just having a good time and not career ending decisions. Actual flesh peeling at the O'club and other squadron (ON BASE) functions, where these men could push it up and at the worst wake up in a ditch/poke somewhere with little reprimand, but more so praise."

AirGuardian..........was that "you" in my ditch?

Very true, very true, and very well said.

[ 14. April 2005, 01:05: Message edited by: SnakeT38 ]

[Guest AirGuardian]

If that ditch was where I was gutter deep laying on my side and finally understanding that water and oil don't mix from my viewpoint on the street, and neither did the dark liquor, vodka, and assorted pints until they were ALL repositioning themselves back to mother earth down the sewer system...

Then yes sir, it was me and your best friend will always be by your side in the slammer, rather than a phone call away when you're trying to make bail!

I'm hoping SnakeT38 and the others would agree - Nothing wrong pushing the limits, just never be the slowest runner/stumbler these days = and never get caught! :D

[ 14. April 2005, 23:56: Message edited by: AirGuardian ]

[Bergman]

Originally posted by Jalberts:

im confused....

F-16 guard guys wanna go back to active duty because they get beat in BFM with older guys with more experiance?? I thought having great guys to learn from made better pilots??

I guess I just dont understand what you mean berg...Im not being a smartass

I think there's more to it than just getting beat down at BFM. I've talked to several buds and they are all like "WTF?" with regard to squadron life in the ANG vs. AD. While the AD itself is a little watered down from the days of old, I think many ANG units out there are full of old heads that just don't push it up any more, especially at home station. Not a lot of squadron comraderie going around these days.

With regards to learning from the old guys, you're right - great experience. However, when it becomes less of a teaching situation and more of a "How stupid are you? However, look at what a great fighter pilot I am!" it starts to grate on you. Honestly, I haven't been to these units or in the debriefs, so I really don't know...just relaying the comments of a few 1Lt friends out in the system in an attempt to show that the grass isn't always greener on the ANG side of the fence.

There's nothing worse than flying with a high-time instructor who has forgotten what it's like to be a student.

[Guest purplecaddis]

Originally posted by Bergman:

Not a lot of squadron comraderie going around these days.

WARNING: Rant coming

Bergman-

I gotta call you on this one. The squadron you are in has undergone some pretty extensive changes in the last 3 years or so. It is tough for any unit to make that transition from fighters to to tankers.

In your past post you have talked about how bad the ANG is, you have mentioned how you couldn't get promoted right away, and now talk about the lack of comraderie and how bad things are.

Did you ever think some of the problems could be you and your attitude? How about the fact that you do not live any where near the squadron? It is tough to make good buds when you live 3 or 4 states away.

Sometimes when a squadron goes through a dramatic change it takes the new blood to get it over the hump. Instead of complaining on weboards about the problems figure out a way to be a part of the solution to fix them.

Rant over

[Bergman]

Originally posted by Caddis:

I gotta call you on this one. The squadron you are in has undergone some pretty extensive changes in the last 3 years or so. It is tough for any unit to make that transition from fighters to to tankers.

I wasn't talking about my squadron!

I could go on a 3 page rant about the conversion process. You are right...I definitely have an axe to grind for a number of reasons, but in this case that is not what I am getting at. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I was simply relaying comments from friends in fighter units.

[Bergman]

Originally posted by Caddis:

In your past post you have talked about how bad the ANG is, you have mentioned how you couldn't get promoted right away, and now talk about the lack of comraderie and how bad things are.

Did you ever think some of the problems could be you and your attitude? How about the fact that you do not live any where near the squadron? It is tough to make good buds when you live 3 or 4 states away.

Sometimes when a squadron goes through a dramatic change it takes the new blood to get it over the hump. Instead of complaining on weboards about the problems figure out a way to be a part of the solution to fix them.

Rant over

Glad to see at least someone actually reads what I post! Just to expound on a few of your comments...

You're right: I have talked about 'the grass not always being greener on the ANG side of the fence'. I think you will find that, for the most part, I stop short of outright saying "The ANG sucks!" There are good and bad things about AD and the ANG, and I have tried to highlight both sides of the story, as I think many people on this board have a somewhat naive view that the ANG is all roses.

You are also correct that in my one fit of rage on this board I complained loudly about not being promoted. The problem wasn't that I "couldn't get promoted", but that they forgot about the paperwork. When I finally confronted the folks about it, I was told "Oh sorry...our bad for forgetting it for all this time!" and I was promoted the next day. At the time I was very frustrated, as this wasn't the first instance of a poor work ethic affecting someone's life (in this case, mine). Another classic example: a UPT candidate's paperwork was at NGB for _A YEAR_ with no one checking on it. By the time they figured out it was lost, the guy ended up waiting for 5 more months for an age waiver since it had taken so long! For me, it has worked out. My AD buddies found out that they were promoted 10 months before I did. I pinned on 1 day after notificiation. They will pin on 24-30 MONTHS after notification.

As I mentioned in my post previous to this, I wasn't talking about my unit when I mentioned the lack of comradarie, although I will agree that living 3-4 states away from a unit makes it difficult to truly be one of the bro's.

Lastly, while I do b*tch about things on-line (good therapy) when I am at the squadron I feel that I am trying to be part of the solution - I do as good a job as anyone at getting folks together for dinner, drinks, or whatever. Having said that, there are definitely cliques of the full timers and folks who were raised in the local area vs. the part-timers and folks who didn't grow up around there. Being a part timer who isn't from the local area is 2 strikes against me and it took me a long while to realize that. In the end, they hired me to fly jets not run a social committee and that's what gets me by. It's just a different atmosphere from what I experienced on AD.

[Guest SnakeT38]

Originally posted by Bergman:

Glad to see at least someone actually reads what I post! Just to expound on a few of your comments...

You're right: I have talked about 'the grass not always being greener on the ANG side of the fence'. I think you will find that, for the most part, I stop short of outright saying "The ANG sucks!" There are good and bad things about AD and the ANG, and I have tried to highlight both sides of the story, as I think many people on this board have a somewhat naive view that the ANG is all roses.

You are also correct that in my one fit of rage on this board I complained loudly about not being promoted. The problem wasn't that I "couldn't get promoted", but that they forgot about the paperwork. When I finally confronted the folks about it, I was told "Oh sorry...our bad for forgetting it for all this time!" and I was promoted the next day. At the time I was very frustrated, as this wasn't the first instance of a poor work ethic affecting someone's life (in this case, mine). Another classic example: a UPT candidate's paperwork was at NGB for _A YEAR_ with no one checking on it. By the time they figured out it was lost, the guy ended up waiting for 5 more months for an age waiver since it had taken so long! For me, it has worked out. My AD buddies found out that they were promoted 10 months before I did. I pinned on 1 day after notificiation. They will pin on 24-30 MONTHS after notification.

As I mentioned in my post previous to this, I wasn't talking about my unit when I mentioned the lack of comradarie, although I will agree that living 3-4 states away from a unit makes it difficult to truly be one of the bro's.

Lastly, while I do b*tch about things on-line (good therapy) when I am at the squadron I feel that I am trying to be part of the solution - I do as good a job as anyone at getting folks together for dinner, drinks, or whatever. Having said that, there are definitely cliques of the full timers and folks who were raised in the local area vs. the part-timers and folks who didn't grow up around there. Being a part timer who isn't from the local area is 2 strikes against me and it took me a long while to realize that. In the end, they hired me to fly jets not run a social committee and that's what gets me by. It's just a different atmosphere from what I experienced on AD.

[Guest AirGuardian]

Really tough to find a good Admin these days. As far as comraderie and "great ANG" unit goes, I'm positive it all depends upon what unit you belong to and sometimes where you stand. Plenty of overall issues such as admin, delayed payment, flying time(for some), upgrades, whatever, but the overall good unit concept will highly depend upon the unit you are in. Whether they were historically fighter and transitioned to non-fighter, fighter possibly becoming UAV(these are tough times), unit getting worried about the BRAC list(plenty of anguish), or just an overall half @ss unit really depends on the system being flown and unit itself... Having been to numerous units during my unmatched desk flying abilities at Guard Bureau/ANGRC, many of the units were doing quite well(pre-911). Now that we do at least 2 or 3 fighter equipment movements to excercises, it seems their is alot of turmoil out there. I may be biased, but having served at my unit for several years now I'm glad to say it far from sucks and the only thing missing is a "heritage room", but that's our own fault of course. Working on that one. Things can change in a heartbeat and I'm sure they will as most things do, but whether you desire AD, Reserves or the ANG it boils down to what your priorities in your life are. Homestation is a good place to build a life(aside from activation/depending on your situation), getting a chance to live in different parts of the country or overseas has its plus as well. Rank, structure, comraderie, lifestyle all seems to fluctuate. But, good luck to all and I can only hope your priorities are met for those on both sides of any fence drawn. And it was a good thing I knew who the Govenor was at the time SnakeT38, you can bet on that!

Good day!

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Originally posted by SHAVED DOG'S ASS:

He probally got his "ass handed" to him in the brief and debriefing... Some people can just make life in the squadron suck. It may have nothing to do with what goes on during actual flying.

How would you even know this?

My young friend, please take some advice. You need to check that attitude before you show up in your first fighter squadron.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Originally posted by Bergman:

Honestly, I haven't been to these units or in the debriefs, so I really don't know...just relaying the comments of a few 1Lt friends out in the system in an attempt to show that the grass isn't always greener on the ANG side of the fence.

There's nothing worse than flying with a high-time instructor who has forgotten what it's like to be a student.

The new Lts are really surprised when they hit the brick wall after the honeymoon is over.

Granted, some instructors should probably hang it up. However, just because the standard is high and the instructor is old and the Lt couldn't meet the bar on a given day doesn't mean the IP is a jerk if he debriefs the guy. It means the Lt didn't hack it and he needs to listen and take notes.

This ain't no puss game. Lives depend on a guy having his sh!t together at night in sh!tty wx with people shooting at him. Where I work it is not just the lives of the guys in the flight but, more importantly, the lives of some 18 year old Americans holding M-16s.

They are taking applications for greeters at Wal Mart if that doesn't make perfect sense.

[Guest SnakeT38]

Originally posted by Rainman A-10:

The new Lts are really surprised when they hit the brick wall after the honeymoon is over.

Granted, some instructors should probably hang it up. However, just because the standard is high and the instructor is old and the Lt couldn't meet the bar on a given day doesn't mean the IP is a jerk if he debriefs the guy. It means the Lt didn't hack it and he needs to listen and take notes.

This ain't no puss game. Lives depend on a guy having his sh!t together at night in sh!tty wx with people shooting at him. Where I work it is not just the lives of the guys in the flight but, more importantly, the lives of some 18 year old Americans holding M-16s.

They are taking applications for greeters at Wal Mart if that doesn't make perfect sense.

[scoobs]

Is it possible to commute to your unit?

[Bergman]

Originally posted by scoobs:

Is it possible to commute to your unit?

Yes.

[scoobs]

I know it depends if its a FW or heavy unit but is that hard to do?