ROTC to ANG/AFR

[AOF_ATC]

I'm currently in my second year of AFROTC and have been seriously considering the ANG/Reserves. I have two plans based on what happens:

1. Direct commission to guard/reserve if it is allowed. I know this doesn't usually happen for pilot so I plan on doing something else like a maintenance officer at the unit I want to fly with. Then, when the next pilot board comes up I will apply and hopefully be accepted.

2. My other option I have been looking into is to commission active duty as something like an Airfield Ops officer and after my 4 year commitment apply for pilot boards at different guard units.

I'm wondering if anyone has gone either of these routes or if anyone knows how practical these options are. Also, how difficult is it to get a full-time spot and if you are full-time, is the pay the same as active duty? I tried searching but there weren't any straight answers.

Edited January 13, 2008 by rotc_pilot

[Buddy Spike]

I'm currently in my second year of AFROTC and have been seriously considering the ANG/Reserves. I have two plans based on what happens:

1. Direct commission to guard/reserve if it is allowed. I know this doesn't usually happen for pilot so I plan on doing something else like a maintenance officer at the unit I want to fly with. Then, when the next pilot board comes up I will apply and hopefully be accepted.

2. My other option I have been looking into is to commission active duty as something like an Airfield Ops officer and after my 4 year commitment apply for pilot boards at different guard units.

I'm wondering if anyone has gone either of these routes or if anyone knows how practical these options are. Also, how difficult is it to get a full-time spot and if you are full-time, is the pay the same as active duty? I tried searching but there weren't any straight answers.

Why? Why not just try to get a pilot slot through ROTC and then palace chase later in life? Or leave ROTC and pursue a pilot slot with the Guard. I'm not sure I understand why you'd want to do a non-rated job just to get a rated gig.

[herkbum]

I agree with Patch. If you want to be a pilot, why wait when you have the opportunity staring you in the face. I'm not ROTC, nor do I know many guys in my squadron that were; so I'm not sure how the process works. I don't understand going non-rated first, unless something is keeping you from getting a pilot slot directly out of ROTC.

[AOF_ATC]

The reasoning behind going into the guard/reserves is that I'd like a more stable home life. The reason I can't leave ROTC is because I am contracted. I suppose I could palace chase but that seems riskier to me that it may not work out when really I just want to do the guard/reserves.

The reason for a non-rated job in the first case would be to be able to transfer into the guard without any problems. In the second case it would be to eliminate the 10 year commitment to be able to transfer into the guard after just 4 years.

Edited January 13, 2008 by rotc_pilot

[Buddy Spike]

The reasoning behind going into the guard/reserves is that I'd like a more stable home life. The reason I can't leave ROTC is because I am contracted. I suppose I could palace chase but that seems riskier to me that it may not work out when really I just want to do the guard/reserves.

The reason for a non-rated job in the first case would be to be able to transfer into the guard without any problems. In the second case it would be to eliminate the 10 year commitment to be able to transfer into the guard after just 4 years.

More stable home life? Do you have another job in mind? Unless you can find an ART/AGR job, you're going to need one when you finish pilot training. You'll need a job that will accommodate your flying schedule, UTAs, and deployments. If you get an AGR/ART job, good on ya, but I don't see how that's any more stable than an active duty gig - unless by stable you mean you don't want to move every 3 years.

I would seriously think this through man. You're proposing doing 4ish years active as a non-rated type. Then you want to go find a squadron. Well you're going to have to find a squadron with openings in your career field. Once you do that, you'll have to work for them (or you can just apply for pilot slots everywhere, but you're not really going to have much of an advantage) and wait for them to have a hiring board. What if they don't? What if they BRAC?

Seriously man, you're risking an almost surefire flying career for some pipedream of a stable homelife (whatever that means). I think you may want to seriously reconsider. By contracting ROTC, you've already made that choice. The question is now whether you want to be a pilot or not. If you choose non-rated, your odds decrease significantly.

[AOF_ATC]

I suppose I don't quite understand the guard and I'm trying to get a better picture. Are you able to get a full-time guard position for the extent of your 20+ years? If so, I was assuming you serve it in your unit and just work full-time there. What are the differences between AGR and a normal guard position besides the fact that one is full time and the other is not.

I appreciate your help thus far, I hadn't realized the guard is that much different. If you can help with these questions I'd appreciate it. I obviously had the wrong picture in my head of the guard/reserves.

Thanks again.

[Buddy Spike]

I suppose I don't quite understand the guard and I'm trying to get a better picture. Are you able to get a full-time guard position for the extent of your 20+ years? If so, I was assuming you serve it in your unit and just work full-time there. What are the differences between AGR and a normal guard position besides the fact that one is full time and the other is not.

I appreciate your help thus far, I hadn't realized the guard is that much different. If you can help with these questions I'd appreciate it. I obviously had the wrong picture in my head of the guard/reserves.

Thanks again.

The Guard has Traditional Reservist (TR) and AGR slots. AGR slots are full-time gigs just like active duty. You earn a military retirement while an AGR. I'm not going to say dudes are never hired into them off the street, but I've never heard of it. Usually guys are hired, sent through the training pipeline (commissioning, UPT, IFF/RTU, SERE, Water, etc.), then they get seasoning days (still on orders). Once the seasoning days end, you're a traditional reservist. If an AGR slot is open, they can hire you into that, but from what I understand of the guard, that's rare early on. So then you either trough (heavies) or pick up man-days some other way (school tours, etc.). You do not have a full-time job. It's on you to find a job and still fly as necessary to keep current.

The Reserves are a bit different, as there is a "baby-ART" program where you can get hired into a Federal Civil Service GS position in the squadron. Those are also fairly rare, but I think they happen more often than AGR jobs. The reserves also have AGR jobs in some units.

Most squadrons will ask you how you plan on making a living once you're done with training, as you shouldn't automatically expect to be hired into a full time job.

[brabus]

What you propose is a bad idea. Decide now if you really want to fly or if you want a 9-5 "stable home life" job. You have a shot right now to go fly, either take it or don't and chalk flying up to a dream you had, but never accomplished. Doing 4 yrs AD, then find a guard unit to do that same job in for a couple yrs, then applying for boards is not a good idea. By the time you get your app going, you'll probably have one shot based on age. And this is all if everything works out almost perfectly.

Your best option is to pursue the AD pilot slot and then palace chase down the road. Do maybe 5 yrs AD service or something and then go guard...that's really a great deal. Also, guard guys deploy as much as AD nowadays. So just b/c you go guard doesn't mean you're not going on nice little trips to the desert.

[Guest skycarven]

Since you are ROTC and signed the contract already, I think you are stuck for now doing the AD thing. Don't quote me on that though. I am in the guard and I will tell you that getting an AGR or Technician slot is pretty competitive. You have to go through the pipeline like brabus said and then after a few years of being back at your unit, you have a chance of applying for a full time position. At least at my unit, there are a lot of people putting in for the full time positions. My advise would be to work your butt off with ROTC so you can get a pilot slot, then palace chance to the guard. Like many of the guys on here have said, you are taking an ENORMOUS by trying to bounce around. Also, some of my buddies that have gone through ROTC said that as long as you aren't a major tool bag and you put some effort into it, you can get a UPT slot. Just my two cents. Good luck in whichever route you decide to go.

[Gravedigger]

I am in my final year of ROTC, have a pilot slot, and will find out if this process works by the end of next week. I am in the process of getting approval to commission into the guard/reserves from HQ AFROTC. I applied to a few units, had a couple of interviews, and now I'm awaiting AFROTC's decision. I will post the response I get when I get it, sts.

[Guest Fighter71]

I enlisted in the air guard after one year of ROTC. I talked to a bunch of dudes who are where I want to be in 20-30 years and they all said they would have done the guard if they had known about it. The reason I enlisted is two fold. In ROTC I felt useless and felt like I wasn't getting a real idea of what the military is like (my personal opinion). I also enlisted because in most units it will guarntee you an interview with that unit. Otherwise, you have to compete for one with any other unit you wish to fly with.

What I tell people is that ROTC is for some people and isn't for others. It wasn't for me and I felt as though the pilot selection process in the guard better suited me. Good luck, message me if you have any questions.

[AOF_ATC]

I am in my final year of ROTC, have a pilot slot, and will find out if this process works by the end of next week. I am in the process of getting approval to commission into the guard/reserves from HQ AFROTC. I applied to a few units, had a couple of interviews, and now I'm awaiting AFROTC's decision. I will post the response I get when I get it, sts.

Please let me know. I heard it is very difficult to do this once you have a rated slot. What are your reasons for pursuing the guard?

[Gravedigger]

What are your reasons for pursuing the guard?

I like the guard/reserve lifestyle. Very close knit community within squadrons, civilian paycheck, sweet missions, stable location.

Had I known about it when I graduated high school, I would have enlisted and never done ROTC.

[amcflyboy]

I'm going to chime in as well because this will be the second time I've done this in this forum.

I'm a Guard pilot who just hit his 10 year mark the other day because I'm prior enlisted. I'm going to have to agree with all the other guys, stay where you are! If you interview with a Guard unit and they find out you left ROTC because of the lifestyle, it may hurt you because they may see you're a real pu$$y, not to be a jerk or anything. I have been turned down for slots at other units because they saw that I didn't have a plan as to how I would support myself outside of the flying world.

I've been bumming for 2 years now, but my unit is an exception because of our mission (Antarctica). During that time, i've been interviewing for AGR jobs, and have been shot down 4 times already because they hired more senior and experienced guys over me. Thankfully my wife is my sugar mama, and right now, I see a recession coming down the road. You may be better off on Active Duty, and serve a few years, and then palace chase. It'll make you a better person in the long run. Fvck the civilian job life, been there, done that and they're laying off left and right!

As a traditional Guardsmen, you fly 48 AFTP's in one Fiscal Year, and then drill one weekend a month. There is also the possibility of trips during the month your unit may get tasked with, and even then, you have to compete with all the other Guardsmen/Guard Bums for those bids. Again, you're never guaranteed a fulltime job with a guard unit unless you mobilize, or some other sweet deal comes down the pike. I'll leave it at that.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but if you want more information, I'd be more than willing to help out. You're welcomed to PM me at anytime!

Hope this helps.

[Guest timewilltell]

Thread Revival....

I am a FY12 ROTC cadet with a Pilot slot. I just passed my FC1 and am awaiting base assignments/ENJJPT. I am just now starting to think about the ANG and I want to know if anyone here has commissioned from AFROTC to ANG. As you can see in the attached documents, this option is open for FY12 cadets. If I were to do this, would I have to re-compete for a UPT slot? This thread goes back and forth about going straight to the Guard vs Palace Chasing and I think it is about time to have that debate again.

Last of all, should I be intimidated by the process? Is it too late to start applying? The guard is really appealing to me and I am just starting the process of learning about it. Also, is there anyone out there that I can contact for more help and ask more questions.

ARMS-AFROTC-11-001.pdf

ARMS-AFROTC-11-001 CROSS COMM - version 8.doc

[rico]

I'm in your shoes right now. I have been applying to guard units I am interested in. Yes you have to recompete just like anyone else, and I'll tell you that getting a guard slot is about 10 million times harder than scoring a slot of of ROTC.

[Duster]

Disclaimer, I have very little experience, but I'll try to help.

I am a FY12 ROTC cadet with a Pilot slot. I just passed my FC1 and am awaiting base assignments/ENJJPT.

Good.

As you can see in the attached documents, this option is open for FY12 cadets. If I were to do this, would I have to re-compete for a UPT slot?

You will have to be hired by the ANG or Reserve unit of which you would like to be employed by. Already having a pilot slot may help, but it may not. That specific unit is going to hire you based off of a variety of things not just the fact that you already have a pilot slot via ROTC.

This thread goes back and forth about going straight to the Guard vs Palace Chasing and I think it is about time to have that debate again.

Really? There's plenty good info on the 2 pages of this thread prior to you posting. And has been discussed elsewhere on this board. This is a choice you will be making. That choice is 100% subjective. No one can tell you which one is better for you specifically. That's for you to find out.

Last of all, should I be intimidated by the process? Is it too late to start applying? The guard is really appealing to me and I am just starting the process of learning about it. Also, is there anyone out there that I can contact for more help and ask more questions.

If you really decide the Guard is for you than why be intimidated? It will certainly be a lot of work finding a unit, getting hired, etc. but if that's where you decided you want to be than go for it. But you're turning down a slot on active duty (if you decide to go guard) a slot that once turned down you can never be accepted for again. I went through the whole thinking about transferring to the Guard prior to my commissioning as well, but it turned out that once I dug up info on what the Guard is like I found out that the grass isn't always greener on the other side. I'm not trying to influence you one way or the other. But the way I figure is that you have a UPT slot (possibly an ENJJPT slot), an FC1 and a commission into AD if you so desire it. Going to the other side of the house, which I'm sure certainly has it's advantages, means giving up all that you have already worked for an obtained (at least temporarily).

Another thing to think about is that you may believe that you will really enjoy a specific airframe and how it'd be nice to know where you'll end up after UPT. While all your bros get the opportunity to change their mind, talk to IPs who have various backgrounds, and see which communities they might want to end up in. Most people go in wanting a specific airframe, then within days/weeks/months suddenly aren't as picky.

Best of luck.