Making a living as guard bum right out of UPT?

[scoobs]

So what I suck at writing.All I'm saying is there are better places to fly then the regionals.Turbine PIC is what matters and will move you up in your flying career.And commanche here are some companies.Clay Lacy,Spirit,and WCC to name a few.This is my opnion but flying T-Props at lower time makes you a better pilot.

[ 14. June 2005, 13:54: Message edited by: scoobs ]

[Guest comanche]

Clay Lacy wants a ton of time. I've called them and got a sorry not enough time. I think you need to go get better info off of flightinfo.com.

[Spartacus]

One thing that I have noticed about civi flying is that it is who you know. Yes, there are certain requirements for each company/airline, but just getting an interview is the hard part a lot of the time. I have friends in Vegas at tour companies and with Skywest.

From what I have seen in order to get a job there are two ways:

1. Have a lot of hours and do well in the interview. Getting the interview is hard and you tend to need a lot of hours just to get looked at.

2. Have the minimum hours and know someone in the company who puts in a good word for you.

I think it's obvious which one is the better way to go!

For example: My buddy at Skywest didn't get a call back for an interview until he had 3,500 hours. He started bothering them at about 1,800.

Then, this same buddy put in a good word for a bunch of his buddies who had the minimum time and they all got hired. Granted they had to pass the interview and the sim ride but I think there is a trend here. Also, the current state and hiring of the airline plays a big role.

My buddy in Vegas got hired on by being recommended by my first flight intructor. This guy who got hired moved up really fast and the company loves him now. If you have the minimum time and you just mention his name you are golden in the hiring process there.

Depending on the state of the industry if you have 1,000+ hours and 250+ multi you should be able to get a job SOMEWHERE. You might have to bend over a little and be a bi*ch for a while but you can do it if you know your stuff and know someone on the inside somewhere. I have friends in the above mentioned places and with Netjets, Flexjet, and scaryair (Cherryair). This is what all of them tell me and they all say that if the AF doesn't work out to give 'em a call and they'll hook me up. They also say to keep in touch and they'll hook me up in 10 years if I want out of the AF. IT'S ALL ABOUT WHO YOU KNOW!

[Guest comanche]

I agree jetjock to a point. I've had two people that are pretty high up in SkyWest walk in my app, and I didn't get anything, because I just met the mins. They were looking for people with more time.

[Spartacus]

Comanche,

Yes, that does happen. It does all depend on your timing and the state of the airline. Skywest for example has been buying RJ's like crazy and has hired a butt load of pilots over the last two years. My buddy who was the first of my friends to get hired there started almost two years ago. Now he has about 1,000 pilots under him. That's a lot of new hires in such a short time frame.

When did you have your application walked-in? Maybe they aren't in such a hiring frenzy anymore. I'll ask my buddy about that.

[hindsight2020]

I'll just add that it's not just civy flying....it's all of flying! But then again we all know my dad of course :D so I'll stop here

[Guest downinthegroove]

Goodness. I got a good taste of things while at Riddle with a IP as a girlfriend. Scoobs is trumpeting like jobs are just out there for anyone which is junk. My dad is a airline pilot who flew commuters and knows some people. He got my ex-gal a interview at Horizon and a foot in so to speak. She had 1500 and 500 when hired and that was only because of friendly strings. For me, I went on my own and am awaiting my medical to clear so I can get some class dates for the Guard. I wish the jobs would have been there, I fly with the grace of a buddy now and then but not for a living, guess I missed that ship when it sailed! Making a living or not, getting your ass in a cockpit is not that easy.

[scoobs]

Lacy will hire with 1000 hrs call them.And Skywest will hire at mins but you have to be lucky.

[ 14. June 2005, 17:46: Message edited by: scoobs ]

[duece123]

I know they both have their “seasoning periods” after UPT but is it easier to bum in a reserve unit, or a guard unit after that seasoning period comes to an end (oh yeah I am asking about heavies) ?

[Guest Rainman A-10]

It's easiest to bum on active duty.

You can always have it your way at Burger King.

[Guest Fred]

Scoobs,

Just curious, what is your background? How many flying hours do you have? Are you military?

[Guest AirGuardian]

"Duece123",

Probably easier to "bum" in a Guard unit since you'd be "troughing" it in the Reserves...

As long as your in a heavy unit the odds are good for living the full-time part-time gig!

The key: Check on the units that you are interested in and watch their score board (schedule) as some of us call it. Find out what sort of trips do they sign up for. Do they have a regualar commitment to the Active Duty, Army, Navy, Marines, Army ANG, etc. Anyone who uses them on a regular basis which pays their part-timers. Are their trips to great locations and how long. Number of trips and length are the key. After that the location issue should be your next bet for a lifestyle you may desire. You'd be surprised to find what trips some Guard units hold on to as best they can. Always volunteering for AD purposes could get you in trouble in future mobilizations. Just check the unit's history and how often are they real players... Each unit actually has a personality and you need to do the research to find out what you want!!!

[Guest Bullmastiff]

STILL, these types of jobs with minimal hour requirements were not available a few years ago. Flying passengers with 900TT, and 100Multi WTFO... Back n the 90's, I would have never guessed this would have ever became the norm. Now, with the increased number of RJ's out there, the hour requirements have dropped through the basement.After all they need low time pilots who will accept low pay, shitty hours, and an all around shitty standard of living. Do I really want a Non-military trained 900 hour pilot flying my family around? Not really, but there isnt much of a choice these days. A lot of civilian pilots these days want a quickie to the airlines/ better pay. I completely understand, but at the same time, be prepared to build massive hours as a CFI, hire on with a 135 charter com. and make your way to the top. It has been done that way for years, and can still be done. Good luck to all

[Carpetbagger]

Original question? Klutz, go to the military pay calculator on the baseops homepage and figure up what you have to make as a bum. An Active Duty 1Lt out of UPT, with dependent, will make close to 55K (dependent on BAH location, of course). If you factor in 14 days of annual tour, 48 FTPs, 48 UTAs, you will make 11-12K, for working the bare minimums (figure about 75 days worth of actual work, you'll understand this later). Throw in about $125-175 per day for a manday (dependent on any number of factors) and it is easy to see that you can fly 250-500 hrs per year, have 180 days off, and STILL make more than you would in a regional job. This doesn't take into account any tax free deployments you add in. As a 1Lt bum in a herk unit, if you make yourself available, you should have no trouble bringing in 30K or more per year. As to the regional/corporate mumbo jumbo arguments listed, listen to the folks with experience. Remember, most of the hour requirements listed in previous posts are MINIMUMS. The regionals typically hire more folks with minimum hours, but many other companies do not, because of steep insurance premiums for lower time folks. The faster you upgrade to A/C, then IP, the better off you will be during any airline interview. That being said, as Rainman mentioned, have a plan for putting food on the table BEFORE you spend 2 years of your life in UPT.

[ 13. July 2005, 22:14: Message edited by: PilotoftheCaribbean ]

[Guest ChrisH]

Originally posted by scoobs:

Commance I hope you are joking.If you want to fly cargo you can get on with Airnet or Ameriflight at 1200 hrs.With AMF you will upgrade to turbine equipement in six months and be home everyday and make more money.There is no regional out there with that quick of an upgrade.There are plenty of charter companies that will hire at 1000 hrs for the right seat.Upgrades are around a year on a light jet.Then its all turbine pic.Rainman and anyone else looking for more info go to flightinfo and do a search.

Very true! I know someone who flew for Flight Express, which operates Cessna 210's and Barons. He made $30K+ on the C210. He was off and home every weekend, and his job was basically a regular 9-5 job. Not all of that time was spent flying, some was duty time, but he racked up the hours rather quickly. A really good gig he had. He is now flying for a regional, because his goal is to fly for the majors, but some of these little cargo companies do pay more than regionals.

The only downside is the equipment, such as at Flight Express. Good pay, more than regionals, but at most you will fly a Baron. Can't really jump from that to the majors, so you still have to take the regional step if that is your goal. However, some of these cargo carriers do operate larger equipment, including Learjets, etc.

As far a charter companies go, you can typically get on with a pretty reputable charter company with times equal to the regional minimums, if not sometimes lower. Starting charter pay, depending on equipment, of course, is typically easily more than regional first year pay.

Keep in mind, however, that first year regional pay is usually low, around $20K. But, second year pay, at most regionals is close to $30K, and more at some regionals, which is definately livable, and it goes up from there. A few to several years (and in a few years, upgrade time could decrease a good bit as the airlines continue to recover) and your a captain, definately making pretty good money. In fact, I know someone who flies for Horizon, and he, as a second year FO, is slated to make close to $50K this year. Of course, he has taken advantage of opportunities for extra flying. Although many regionals have a guarantee of usually atleast 75hrs per month, that doesn't mean your limited to that, which is something to keep in mind.

[Guest johnny130]

I've been bumming for years. I got off AD in 2000 and have not had to get a "real job" yet. I think I live really comfortable. ie I have more toys and more cash in the bank. For my unit I can say "It pays to be a Bum".

OUT

[JBueno]

Resurrecting a long buried thread here.

How is the bum / trough status in the guard and reserve these days? Iraq is gone, but have those of you who on here who bum noticed a significant dropoff in extra flying/days available?

[Guest]

Abundance of days and dollars in the Guard. The USAF is flush with cash. All part of the peace dividend.

[MC5Wes]

Same in the Reserve. Except we cancel UTA's because of the lack of funds.

[Bergman]

Resurrecting a long buried thread here.

How is the bum / trough status in the guard and reserve these days? Iraq is gone, but have those of you who on here who bum noticed a significant dropoff in extra flying/days available?

Will depend on what airframe you are flying. In the KC-135, haven't noticed a reduction yet.

[JarheadBoom]

Resurrecting a long buried thread here.

How is the bum / trough status in the guard and reserve these days? Iraq is gone, but have those of you who on here who bum noticed a significant dropoff in extra flying/days available?

AFRC -10 at WRI:

- We're down to 3 locals/week (from 6-7/week at this time last year), and usually at least one of those ends up a MX-CANX.

- RPA is hard to get, and you better have an ironclad alibi if it's to maintain/regain currency items.

- MPA is still around, but way less than before (I'm kinda surprised it lasted into FY12).

- There's always the desert. The AD almost never says no to individual desert volunteers...