Making a living as guard bum right out of UPT?

[Guest klutzcdh]

I will be graduating UPT in about 4 months and wanted to know if you are able to live off of guard bumming right out of UPT. The AGR slots are tight and everyone wants them and I don't really want to go and fly a small commuter for slim shange. I know someone out there has had to have done it. Is it possible to support a wife and NO kids guard bumming while waiting for that good civilian aviation job. (I will be a first LT out of UPT)

Thanks for the info!

[scoobs]

I think it depends on what aircraft and your unit.Either way you will make more then a regional pilot.From other people on this board you can make decent money if your flexible.

[Guest Slye]

I thought I read a post a while back that said that a guard bum will make a minimum of ~$10k/year. Do fighter guys really have a chance at making much more than that without securing a coveted AGR slot? I think the starting salary of a regional FO is roughly $20k. Also, how does BAH, Tricare, and tuition assistance for a Master's degree work as a guard bum?

[Guest klutzcdh]

Unit has KC-135R's located in Kansas and have no problem with flexibility.

[Guest JArcher00]

What kind of good civilian flying job do you think you will get flying as a co-pilot?...I assume you are going heavy. Unless you have prior civilian hours flying something other than a single enigne or little twin. Your time and energy would be better spent going to a regional gaining more flying time than you would ever get bumming. Yes, the money hurts at first but you need to weigh the pros and cons of what it takes to get your untimate goal. If it is flying for a major airline of any sort....bumming will not cut it. What is you ultimate career plan?

[ 12. June 2005, 19:01: Message edited by: RedDog ]

[Guest Rainman A-10]

We ask our pilot candidates in their interview what their plan is for a real job after UPT graduation. We are very frustrated it they say "I figured I would try for a full time AGR job or just Bum..."

Wrong Answer. It is the Guard, not the active duty. I like to remind them that they need to have a plan for feeding their family BEFORE they go to UPT. The Guard is a part time job.

[Guest TheBurt]

Making a living as a bum is airframe dependent. I have been in the guard almost 15years, guard bum for 7 of those years. I made a pretty good living and now fly for FedEx. A word of wisdom, if you want to make it as a bum you need to diversify your experience ie. be willing to work tactics, command post, training, safety or anything that can get man days to fill in between trips.

Guard bumming since 11 Sep 01 has been unprecedented in the amount of active duty you can get, most of that is in OEF/OIF. AGR/Technician slots are hard to come buy when the airlines are furloughing and not hiring, do not expect an AGR/Technician slot out of pilot training (not uncommon when economic times are good). All this being said, I always have to qualify my perspective as from a guard C-130 unit. If Rainman doesn't mind me saying, I think he is coming from the guard fighter side of the house, two totally different worlds.

[scoobs]

Another problem is everyone thinks the airlines are so great but there not.You could fly charter or cargo and make more money.If you have no flight time your only option is to bum or become a CFI.Most heavy units now have lots of chances to bum and make a living.

[ 12. June 2005, 21:54: Message edited by: scoobs ]

[Guest comanche]

scoobs, you try and fly cargo and charter let me know how that goes. In order to do those you need more time then a regional, and they don't pay sh1t!

[ 12. June 2005, 22:04: Message edited by: comanche ]

[Guest AV8NSP]

Bumming will make you some money (SOME money, not lots of it), but understand that by doing AFTPs and short man day stints, you are not eligible for ANY benefits...no TRICARE, nothing. If your wife works, and you can get coverage that way, you're golden. If you are expecting to be the bread winner as a bum, I think generally speaking, for a married or married with kids person, that is not such a wise plan....my 2 cents...

[Guest Herk06]

TheBurt -

Roughly how many hours do you accumulate after UPT for the C-130? I already have all my ratings and a little over 400 hours and I was wondering how competitive I will be after UPT as far as flight time goes. I've heard from a few that you can almost bypass the regionals after attending UPT for a heavy (although I think that is highly unlikely in my opinion)Just curious . . .

[Guest comanche]

Herk the majors usually want around 1200 PIC turbine /turbofan/turbojet time. The regionals want around 1000TT/100 multi/100 sim hood or actual, some want 1200TT/200 multi/same hood time. There are a few that want more, but those two are the norms.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Originally posted by scoobs:

Another problem is everyone thinks the airlines are so great but there not.You could fly charter or cargo and make more money.If you have no flight time your only option is to bum or become a CFI.Most heavy units now have lots of chances to bum and make a living.

Scoobs, what is the basis for your expert opinon on all these matters?

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Originally posted by TheBurt:

If Rainman doesn't mind me saying, I think he is coming from the guard fighter side of the house, two totally different worlds.

I don't mind at all and you are absolutely correct.

I assumed most people knew my perspective, I should've qualified it. At least I didn't piss everyone off by saying something about Guard Babies saying anything in their UPT board interview and then acting shocked when they realize the ANG is not the Burger King air force! Slow but steady learning curve.

Let me try again...

There are not a lot of opportunities to feed your family as a bum in a non-ONE fighter unit. You will be on orders for a couple years after UPT so you have some time to get a "real job" before you become a drill status guardsman.

[Guest TheBurt]

Rainman,

Cool, I feel I always have to qualify statements sometimes so I don't get into the mudslinging contests!!

Anyway, Herk06, I was able to accumulate about 3800 hours after UPT until now, if you have read my other posts I was also working full time as a State Trooper for some of this time, and then became a guard bum, this time spanned about 6 years of full time guard bumming. As some have already mentioned, health benefits were paid out of pocket during this time, but since 11 Sep 01 I was pretty much on Tri Care. Did I make a good living? Yes, I was not married and owned a very small house and had nothing better to do than to spend almost all my time on trips or AFTPs, working in training, scheduling, tactics, motorcycle safety etc, etc. I may have been an exception, but I showed many a co-pilot what time commitment was required and I know several that are guard bumming to their hearts content as we speak, again keep in mind OEF/OIF has allowed many of them to remain on title 10 active duty for 2 years, we have several co-pilots that have 1000 hours in the C-130 and 600 hours of combat time. I finally decided to get full-time employment after my 6th OEF/OIF deployment, I had gotten married and have a small child, I got hired by the US Forest Service as a firefighting lead-plane pilot (awesome job) and recently left for FedEx.

The question of going to the regionals vs. guard bumming is a tough one, but I will try and answer. Myself and 2 others came out of the schoolhouse in 1997, two of us bummed and one went to the regionals, the two of us that bummed were able to get hired at FedEx around the same time. With that being said my sim partner at FedEx was an Embry-riddle grad and flew for a regional, he is only 28! He also accumulated 4500 hours in a RJ, it is very good time, but from my experience I noticed that military pilots did not have to have as many hours as straight civilian.

Bottom line, if you are brand new to your unit, and don't mind rotating to the desert for two years straight, you will get plenty of flying time, be ready to upgrade to Aircraft Commander at the end of this time, then go get a job at the regionals and hope to upgrade quickly, however sometimes it's a crap shoot, I know several that went with American Eagle around the time I came back from UPT that are still in the right seat or got pushed back into it from the reverse flow through when American furloughed. I hope this helps, we could discuss this for days!

[scoobs]

Commance I hope you are joking.If you want to fly cargo you can get on with Airnet or Ameriflight at 1200 hrs.With AMF you will upgrade to turbine equipement in six months and be home everyday and make more money.There is no regional out there with that quick of an upgrade.There are plenty of charter companies that will hire at 1000 hrs for the right seat.Upgrades are around a year on a light jet.Then its all turbine pic.Rainman and anyone else looking for more info go to flightinfo and do a search.

[ 13. June 2005, 13:46: Message edited by: scoobs ]

[Guest Herk06]

TheBurt --

Thanks for the info . . .I appreciate it! Must have been a awesome job doing the fire thing.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Originally posted by scoobs:

Rainman and anyone else looking for more info go to flightinfo and do a search.

Yeah, right. I'm all set, thanks.

Please cease buzzer.

[Guest comanche]

Scoobs you are a dipshit! It takes more hours to fly with those companies then it does with a regional, which I correctly stated. They pay for airnet is 1333 a month, and they can work the shit out of you. SkyWest, for example is 19.02 an hour to begin with and guarantee of 75 hours. That comes out to 1426.50 a month if you don' fly at all. More if you fly more. A second year CRJ FO will make 32 something an hour I believe which comes out to 2240 a month minimum. My buddy sitting reserve hasn’t worked in 25 days, I think he is home every night for now.

I think I have proved that you can fly less with an airline, make more, and get hired with less hours. Go learn something.

Ohhh btw scoobs what forum did you get your info off of because it is wrong.

[scoobs]

Commanche your the idiot.If you don't believe me go post this on flightinfo.I'm not going to fight with you.At AMF you will start at 23,000 a year compared to 19,000 at Skywest.Pic turbine is what the majors are looking for.So you take a year and a half to upgrade at Skywest or you 6 months at AMF.Your the dipshit get your facts straight.

[UPT-hopeful]

Summa down nah.

What would Donna Summer's name look like in the phone book?

Summer Donna

Just relax. No reason to get all bent out of shape.

[ 13. June 2005, 17:12: Message edited by: UPT-hopeful ]

[lloyd christmas]

Scoobs, once again I will state that I am pretty close to never getting on this site again because of you and you alone. Please finish 7th grade english before you post again. A sentence like "Commanche your the idiot" says enough. Properly stated it is "you are the idiot" or "you're the idiot."......Your indicates possession of something. Get that straight and then try and understand the world of flying and what it takes to make money. People just might begin to respect your posts if you would type correct english. There are also two spaces between sentences when you are typing them out.

[Guest comanche]

Scoobs tell me what company will hire me into a jet at 1000 hours and upgrade me in a year. I want to apply ASAP! I'll go look at flightinfo.com to see if I can find the answer you will provide.

[Spartacus]

Well, this isn't a regional, but there are scenic are tour companies in Vegas that will hire at 650 with 200 multi for a Twin Otter. That's turbine time.

My first flight instructor did it and I have a couple buddies down there doing it right now. They make about 20K. However, they fly their butts into the ground!

[Guest cbire880]

I think jetjock hit the nail on the head. Turbine equipment does not equal turbojets.

Also, when I was looking for a new charter job, I couldn't get a jet FO slot with my 1600 and 300 turboprop. Everybody in the 135 world seemed to want 2000 total for Learjets and Slowtations. Besides, its 90% about timing and who you know anyway.