Guard Terminology

[Guest Hoser]

God knows that I don't know my arse from my elbow when it comes to the inner workings of the Guard/Reserve hiring/pay, etc. I was at the altitude chamber up at Langly today and made contact with someone from a certain guard unit that I might be interested in flying for some day.

Back to my arse from my elbow: could someone please give me a general summary/difference between full time/AGR/traditional/technician, etc. Things in particular: pay/benefits (bonus?), which one are more conducive to flying for an airline. What the hell is a UTE(sp) day? Also I know that 1 year of guard time doesn't equal 1 year of AD time when it comes down to retirements, so if someone could explain how they figure out that you've reached your "20" years for retirement.

Hoser

[ 18. January 2006, 19:29: Message edited by: Hoser ]

[PlanePhlyer]

I'll try dude considering I'm a technician in the Mass Air Guard (Armament Systems). In regards to full time/traditional or AGR/technician. Full time means that is your full time job and you are either an AGR (active guard reserve) or a technician (wg-10, ws-09, gs-12...theres different wage classes for different jobs). AGR is in essence full time employee at a national guard/reserve base that is paid just like an active duty member. A technician is a federal employee that is paid hourly. A "traditional" is a member of the national guard that does their one weekend a month/two weeks a year deal and either goes to school full time or works full time.

In regards to retirement points think of one day of active duty = to 1 point. So for an individual to "do their 20" typically means that they have done 20 years of active duty. This boils down to about 7300 retirement points. So after 20 years the person would get a percentage of their pay when they hit 60 or 65(not sure the age). As a traditional, they get points by doing the one weekend a month thing and 2 weeks a year (or more if they get activated or volunteer for more deployments). EX:I'm a technician (no military retirement poitns), so I work full time at the guard base as a weapons mechanic. On the guard weekends I'm now getting retirement points for the military.

Not sure if that helps, its kind of an intricate web. And sorry for the long post, its a very boring night in New England.

PlanePhlyer

[Bergman]

Haha...understanding the Guard pay system is like unraveling the Goridan Knot. I think PlanePhyler got off to a good start...here's my attempt:

Originally posted by Hoser:

Things in particular: pay/benefits (bonus?), which one are more conducive to flying for an airline.

To fly for the airlines, you will be a traditional = "one weekend a month" guy. You'll get 96 drill periods (4 hour work blocks) and FTPs (flying training periods - same pay as drill, but MUST fly to "burn" one). For a Major over 10 (me) it's $182.74 base plus $21.67 flight pay (pro rated for 1 day...$650/30) =$204.41 per drill ("UTA" is what you might have heard...the actual name for a drill.."Unit Training Activity"). Then you'll get 2 weeks of AD pay (pay, flight pay, BAH) for "annual training". That's the minimum. Anything you do as a traditional beyond that will be extra pay. Most units are pretty flexible with their part timers' schedule...because the ANG, IMHO, was basically designed for airline pilots. My only recommendation here would be to live within an easy commuting distance of your ANG unit...double commutes (airline and ANG) suck. There is no "pilot bonus" for traditionals or AGR (full time active duty guard), but Technicians (civilian full-timers on the GS pay scale) are getting a 10% pilot bonus right now, IIRC.

Also I know that 1 year of guard time doesn't equal 1 year of AD time when it comes down to retirements, so if someone could explain how they figure out that you've reached your "20" years for retirement.

For a Traditional...you get 1 retirement point for each day of active duty, drill period, or FTP. If (total number of points)/(365)=20 then you will get an active duty retirement. So even if it takes you 28 years to earn 20 years worth of points, you can still get an AGR (AD) retirement. All of your days (points) from active duty will transfer to the ANG and count toward that retirement.

If you retire as a part-timer (traditional), there is ANOTHER pay scale that tells you how much your retirement will be. I.E. If I make Lt Col with 24+ years, my point multiplier will be .501. So if I were to "retire" at 24 years from date of commissioning and have 5000 points, I will get 5000 x .501=$2505/month once I reach age 60, which is the big gotcha...because I could "retire" from the ANG with 24 years of service at only 46 years old...and not get a check (or medical benefits) for 14 more years.

Good Lord...does any of that make sense? I just went back to proofread and I think I confused myself. ;)

It seems there's always more to learn about the ANG pay system so hopefully someone with more than my 4 years in can speak up.

[scoobs]

Here is a good guide for pay.

https://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=68970

[Guest rhildreth]

I have a little info regarding points earned in the ANG:

1 pt. for active duty days (This would be like if you were put on federal orders for a deployment, as well as your two weeks a year).

2 pts. per day when attending UTA, which is Unit Training Assembly (weekend drill).

Eveyone gets 15 pts. just for breathing.

In order to have a good year, one must accumulate 50 pts. The "year" is based on your enlistment day.

EXAMPLE: I have been in 5 years. My enlistment day is Oct. 13. Thus, I have 4 pts from Nov UTA, 4 for Dec UTA, and 4 for Jan UTA, plus the 15 I get just for breathing. Right now I am at 31 pts. In order for this year to count towards my 20 years, I have to accumulate 19 more points throughout the year. If, for example I skip all the remaining drills and dont do any active duty days, then this year doesnt count towards my twenty. Thus, when I finish the year I will still have only been in 5 years in regards to retirement.

[Guest OldHercNav]

Bergman said: For a Traditional...you get 1 retirement point for each day of active duty, drill period, or FTP. If (total number of points)/(365)=20 then you will get an active duty retirement. So even if it takes you 28 years to earn 20 years worth of points, you can still get an AGR (AD) retirement. All of your days (points) from active duty will transfer to the ANG and count toward that retirement.

If you are saying that once you get 20 years of points, regardless of how they were earned ( inactive duty, AD, etc.),you draw an AD retirement from that day on; this is incorrect. See the link below from ARPC that addresses this.

ARPC FAQ about AD Retirement

[B-O-double-Z]

Hoser...and anybody else who's interested,

Don't get too far down in the weeds on this one. Here's some simple gouge.

Part-time pilot: Has another job outside the military--usually airlines. Comes in to fly several times a month, usually attends monthly drill, may accept missions for extended periods as a volunteer, could be activated for unspecified period in time of war, makes between $25-40K, depending on level of participation. Is eligible for a pro-rated retirement after 20 years, but doesn't collect it until age 60.

Guard/Reserve Bum: See above, except has no job outside part-time military. This, being as such, volunteers for every mission and deployment, probably has no medical benefits, makes $30-60K.

Active Guard/Reserve (AGR): Pay, benefits, vacation retirement just like active duty. Leave after 20 years, start collecting your retirement the next day. Usually an experienced IP in your weapons system. Makes active duty pay, $60K-120K depending on rank, years of service, bonuses. These positions are not numerous, and in the post airline furlough era (now), are very hard to get because of the demand.

Air Reserve Technician (ART): The most complicated status. Works 40 hours a week as a federal employee. Pay and benefits in this status is the same as other federal employees (CIA, Customs, FBI, etc.) Even though being paid by the feds, officers wear military uniform and do normal military stuff (fly, SOF, etc.) All ARTs also have a part-time military position in the unit (See above). During weekends, extra hours, some deployments, ARTs get paid as military part-timers and also accrue a pro-rated military retirement based on total participation in that status. Usually senior instructor pilots and unit management. MUST STAY IN THE PROGRAM UNTIL AGE 56 TO GET FEDERAL RETIREMENT. Total pay, from two different pots, consists of approx. 3/4 federal and 1/4 military. Total combined compensation $100-160K, depending on military rank, civil service grade, years of service. Two retirements, civil service at 56, and pro-rated militry retirement collected at 60. These positions, like AGR, are hard to get.

Hope this helps everybody out there.

[Bergman]

Originally posted by OldHercNav:

If you are saying that once you get 20 years of points, regardless of how they were earned ( inactive duty, AD, etc.),you draw an AD retirement from that day on; this is incorrect. See the link below from ARPC that addresses this.

ARPC FAQ about AD Retirement

What I said initially is a little over-simplified (i.e. certain types of days - IDT and membership, for example, don't count), but from what I've been told from our retirement/retention NCOIC it IS possible (she is doing it...retires next week). I've been trying to find an AFI/NGI reference but haven't come up with anything.

[Scooter14]

Yes it is possible. We have some folks who have been mobilized since late 2001. Add those years to their active duty careers which spanned 12-15 years, and they will be able to swing the full Active Duty retirement, ie retire and draw pension immediately.

Not to get too off track, but the amount of points you get in a year directly correlates to participation both nside and out of the unit. For example, some guys will do their UTA's/AFTP's and AT and a couple trips, and that's it. Bums will try to pick up more trips. Some folks (like myself) will volunteer to deploy with other uits. There are opportunities to do 3-4 year AGR tours with the Reserves, and also at various MAJCOM headquarters, etc. The HQ tours may not be appealing now, but if you are looking to retire, and that 3 year tour will round out your 20 Active Duty points, and allow you to retire with Active Duty bennies, it becomes a little more appealing, especially for guys who have a good amount of time invested on the Active side.

The point I'm trying to make, without being too redundant, is that if you don't get picked up full time somewhere, there are many different ways to get paid and get points, you just have to be a little creative sometimes.

AirGuardian is the master of this...where has that guy been?

[Guest OldHercNav]

Yes it is possible, although I was trying to point out it is very rare that it happens and the fact that the 20 yrs of points have to be all AD points - I think there are actually 7 types of points and most do not help for the AD retirement issue.

[scoobs]

Why would an ART have to wait till he if 56 to get retirement? Wouldn't that put you close to 30 yrs instead of 20? And is it hard to balance your time as an ART?

[ 19. January 2006, 15:59: Message edited by: scoobs ]

[Bergman]

Originally posted by scoobs:

Why would an ART have to wait till he if 56 to get retirement? Wouldn't that put you close to 30 yrs instead of 20?

Because, as we have mentioned, an ART is a FEDERAL employee, NOT active duty. Therefore, they fall under the same federal retirement system as all other federal employees (postal service, FBI, CIA, etc)

And is it hard to balance your time as an ART?

YES

[Scooter14]

Scoobs,

Those were actually relavent questions. Nicely done.

[scoobs]

Thanks I didn't know that federal employees had to wait till they were 56.

[Guest AirGuardian]

Yeah Scooter 14,

I'm around Europe and just got back after about 3 weeks of Bravo's and whatnot...

Anyway, YES the 20 year retirement can be attained with different days but as a few have said before it is a bit detailed. Title 32, title 10 - activation, training days - there are variables.

Most personnel who have been able to get the AD retirement immediately have been around awhile in the Guard or have come off active duty after 16 or so years having been activated a couple of times and received extra training orders and applicable status. We have a couple of these Lt Col's going into "sanctuary" very soon and will earn this full immediate retirement when they leave. Tough to get, but it's a good deal!

You guys have an awesome background out there, nice to see I was really never needed! I'll just keep on fly'n, the Germany thing is a good deal...

Take care!

[Guest a_uhan23]

Woah...my brain just exploded...