How to rush a unit

[Guest wilco]

I am an enlisted guy who is going up for the home unit soon. I kept my mouth shut for the most part since I was a punk kid and my mil father advised me to, however, I am starting to wonder if I stayed to quiet?

I have been told by some of my recs that I need to make sure that I socialize with the pilots.

Anybody have any advice about how to act in the situations leading up to interview time.

[trailmix]

thats a tough question to answer... a lot of times theyre going to pick the dude who fits in best with the unit. So i guess just be yourself, show them you can be one of the bros and arent going to be a complete a$$hole etc. One tip and youre on ur own: at rollcall, keep your mouth shut, even if u get introduced. Keep it short or expect to drink and be mocked.

[Guest sleepy]

You drink at rollcall, mix?

From my experience as a non-prior, the more abuse you receive, the better. Of course, your mileage might vary as a prior. At any rate, don't shun navs or anyone else for that matter just to socialize with the pilots. That should go without saying, though.

If you're a smartass, that's okay. Sometimes smartasses get in, and I'm the classic example. Case in point:

(Names have been changed to protect the stupid and guilty. It went something like this...)

Pilot pulls the vice wing commander over and says, "Hey Frank, you need to meet sleepy."

A firm exchange of handshakes between two skinny gents, and he says "Damn, boy, we need to get you some food."

"Thank you, Sir. Perhaps you should join me."

Good luck!

[Guest rumblefish_2]

Originally posted by trailmix:

...just be yourself...

The best advice. If you don't, the pilots will see through it.

[Guest flightproak]

Are you worth having around? If so, be yourself. If you're not worth being near then straighten up and become worth being around. I will say that flying demands flexibility and your flexibility will be demonstrated in social settings. Good luck.

[Guest srvmcm]

Agreed on rushing the squadron. I'm a non-prior and that's how I got selected! Just went in and started asking questions. They were more than happy to answer them and talk about random stuff. I've heard it varies by unit, but if I hadn't rushed the squadron, tried to meet everyone I could, and been a stand-up person to EVERYONE I met, I wouldn't be where I am today.

The other thing... don't waste your time if your grades and PCSM are bad. Everyone interviewed at my unit had good GPAs (over 3.0) and AFOQT Pilot and PCSMs in the 90s. Gotta be able to back up your talk!

[Guest sleepy]

Originally posted by srvmcm:

The other thing... don't waste your time if your grades and PCSM are bad. Everyone interviewed at my unit had good GPAs (over 3.0) and AFOQT Pilot and PCSMs in the 90s. Gotta be able to back up your talk!

Don't get discouraged by less than stellar numbers. There's more to it than that.

[Guest srvmcm]

I wouldn't be discouraged... I'd work harder and take the test again and again and get more flight time.

Wilco, there are applicants who have thousands of hours and there are some who are commissioned special ops guys... all with super scores. There are unit members with great scores! Anything is possible, but I wouldn't be settling for an AFOQT pilot score under 80.

Just my opinion from my own selection (fighter unit), in order of importance:

1. Getting to know the pilots, unit members, and Squadron Commander. Gotta know people.

2. Being a unit member (I wasn't)

3. Great scores

4. Anything else.

Just my .02.

[Guest wilco]

How did everyone know I didn't have good scores? Amazing.

I am nervous about that, but I do have lots of good service and I do know everyone pretty well, so there is that.

I haven't heard this on any board, but I've been told by many in my unit that it hurts to have too much time. I was told all I needed was a solo. I have my PPL though and i was also told that it is good that I paid for it myself.

[duece123]

It has been said many times........scores get you the interview.....interview gets you the job

[spit21fire]

Originally posted by srvmcm:

I wouldn't be discouraged... I'd work harder and take the test again and again and get more flight time.

Wilco, there are applicants who have thousands of hours and there are some who are commissioned special ops guys... all with super scores. There are unit members with great scores! Anything is possible, but I wouldn't be settling for an AFOQT pilot score under 80.

Just my opinion from my own selection (fighter unit), in order of importance:

1. Getting to know the pilots, unit members, and Squadron Commander. Gotta know people.

2. Being a unit member (I wasn't)

3. Great scores

4. Anything else.

Just my .02.

I agree with the order of importance. I was selected for a FW as well, not being a member of the unit and we had other guys apply that had steller military careers. My pilot score was only 78 though and my PCSM was 91.

[Guest Detzel]

Well I transferred into my unit about a month after I submitted my package, because I knew it meant a guaranteed interview. I visited with the pilots at least once every couple of weeks, went to various social gatherings at the O club, and presented a gift in the form of booze to the squadron lounge. I flew the sim every chance I got, and really got to know some of the guys pretty well. When I went in to the interview I was fairly comfortable because I had already met some of the board members.

9 weeks after I joined the unit I had the slot. I couldn't say that there was one over riding factor that sealed my fate. It was the synergistic combination of fitting in quite well with the pilots, showing how motivated I was, and having a very strong package to start with.

As far as keeping your mouth shut, I'd say that's a big mistake. They want go-getters. They want to know how bad you want it. This is especially true with the fighter side. My unit was hiring for both heavies and fighters, and I concentrated all my "rushing" efforts on the fighter side, because that’s what I wanted and I wanted them to know that. So I don't know if you've interviewed yet, but my advice is get in there and be known.

[Guest kcip2010]

I sit on UTP selection boards from time to time and the things that I look for from guys who visit the Squadron are interest and enthusiasm.

I like a candidate who asks alot of questions and is generally interested in the people, the airplane and the mission. Additionally, I look for people who are enthusiastic about being here, about the challenge and about what they are currently doing (college, civilian job, enlisted, etc.)

One of the better guys I talked to before a UPT board told me that he flew a C-152 as a traffic reporter for a radio station in a big city. He said that the job sucked but he loved flying too much to quit. The whole time he had a big smile on his face and it was obvious that he loved everything that he did and I knew that it would carry over into his military career. It did.

[trailmix]

Originally posted by Detzel:

As far as keeping your mouth shut, I'd say that's a big mistake.

I think you missed the context. After all, 1st lesson as a __________________ drvier: Never pass up the golden opporunity, to keep your mouth shut.

That being said, at social hour or down time, by all means chat, shake hands, ask intelligent and pointed questions. At Roll call, STFU, say hi, I'm interested in joining the unit, thanks for having me, heres a handle of Jack Daniels. THATS IT, no stories, no jokes, no anectodes. In a briefing room (if they let you sit in) STFU.. no question while they are briefing unless directly asked etc. That is what was meant by keep your mouth shut. Don't roll up and be all know-it-all and have a case of can't-shut-the-f*ck-upitis.

~mix

PS - ALSO: reference above and dont get wasted and puke all over yourself then pass out in the ops parking lot...

[ 07. August 2006, 11:11: Message edited by: trailmix ]

[Guest Hud Cripple]

My .02 is that I agree with most of what has already been said here, but I want to top it off with one word, MATURITY.

You can join the unit, go to roll call, go the the O-Club, or wash all of the cars in the parking lot. No single act will seal the deal for you. The one thing that we can sense is maturity. Good grades, scores, and recomendations are also important. That is why you submit a package. And a part of the package that is difficult to display on paper is your maturity. Visiting the unit is a good way to put a name and a first impression with the package.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Wilco,

I would say the advice you got from your Dad was spot on. It is better to be quiet than to hang around licking balls in the squadron bar. It is good if the people in the unit can recognize you but you don't have to be the party animal or over eager super candidate.

It is very obvious when a guy is just there to kiss ass. You can bring all the booze you want (which is not required if you are enlisted in the wing) and it's not going to help you. I remember a pilot from another ANG unit (non-fighter) who used to come to the unit all the time with jugs of JD and containers of cigars. Everything he brought had "Courtesy of Maj Hooterschloggin". He was a total ass licker and he wasn't ashamed to admit it. We all laughed our asses off as we smoked his cigars and drank his booze. He never had a chance.

We hired based on the guy's warrior spirit. If he was a warrior we knew he would fit in. Being abrasive was not a concern. Being a warrior was a priority. No need for folks who would be scared or ***** about going TDY. We also valued guys who were not looking for the unit to pay their bills.

Here's some red flags we always looked for:

- Saying you know so and so who used to be the commander of something.

- Asking a lot of questions about being a Guard Bum.

- Talking about your previous life without prompting.

- Asking if the pilots "have to go TDY a lot" instead of asking if you get to go TDY a lot.

- Asking if "everyone has to go on every AEF".

- Asking what are the criteria for getting a waiver for X, Y and Z.

BL: Every unit is different and they are all looking for their own thing. There is no magic formula. Just be yourself.

[Guest sleepy]

Turn off your cell phone.

[kapilot]

I've been trying to get picked up by either a guard and reserve unit for a while now with not a lot of luck. I'm aware of the process and the good ole boy system that most operate under. I wanted to post and ask advice of anyone who may be able to contribute. If you don't know anyone in a unit what's the best way to get your foot in the door? Especially locally, how often did you visit the unit. Who should I be talking to set up the visits? For those of you who did rush units...What was your strategy? What was effective and what was not. When is the best time to visit? etc. etc.

Thanks

[Guest vg2180]

I found during my “Rush Phase” that most guard units want to see that you will be committed to the unit and not just a pilot slot. Most guard units like to take pilot applicants from within (not the good-ol-boy system, but paying your dues and showing that you’re the type of guy/girl they can work with). After visiting a couple of units and applying unsuccessfully, i decided that I would enlist with the unit that I liked most. Some things I based my decision on where how many pilot positions the unit was looking to fill over the next year, the people within the unit, aircraft, mission, and the base location. After enlisting in the unit I was picked up at the following board. This does not guarantee you a spot but does increase your chances. Pick a job that works with the ops side of the house so you can get your name out there… Good luck

Edited July 9, 2008 by vg2180

[MT near]

If you want to enlist fine....but I say the biggest thing to get hired is not being a doush. Call them and be a professional yet down to earth guy looking for information. Ask if you wanted to visit the unit how would you go about it. Get an email to contact and pick a date to visit. Dont email them every week asking questions, getting advice or other annoying stuff. Go visit and DONT BE A NERDY DOUSH!!! Just hang out, have fun, and get as much info as possible. Find out when applications are due and turn in one thats professional. Also, dont bug them on board dates after the visit. Drop an email saying you appreciate their hospitality and thats it.

[kapilot]

I found during my “Rush Phase” that most guard units want to see that you will be committed to the unit and not just a pilot slot. Most guard units like to take pilot applicants from within (not the good-ol-boy system, but paying your dues and showing that you’re the type of guy/girl they can work with). After visiting a couple of units and applying unsuccessfully, i decided that I would enlist with the unit that I liked most. Some things I based my decision on where how many pilot positions the unit was looking to fill over the next year, the people within the unit, aircraft, mission, and the base location. After enlisting in the unit I was picked up at the following board. This does not guarantee you a spot but does increase your chances. Pick a job that works with the ops side of the house so you can get your name out there… Good luck

I'm 26 and a half years old. Do I have time to do this? What if I did do this and got picked up by a unit somewhere else would I have to stay at the one I enlisted at or could I go to where I was offered a slot at?

[MT near]

IMO your too old to enlist. Keep up the rusing and you will be fine. What type aircraft?

[Guest Fighter71]

The best advice anyone ever gave me is, "Let's face it, the one thing pilots like to talk about more than aviation is themselves.'' Hence, ask questions and get information just like the others said. Be yourself, hangout, have a drink, and ask questions. Don't tell stories or talk about yourself unless they ask. And even then, remain as humble and down to earth as possible. I've watched two people ruin their chances totally with a unit because they were telling Cessna war stories. It can be hard/awkward to just show up at a unit you don't know anything about if you don't know anyone but it will pay off.

At your age, don't worry about enlisting, just rush the hell out of the units you want to fly with. Pick the ones with the soonest possible board and rush those while applying/talking to others. If the ones with the soonest boards don't work, just move on to the next round. I enlisted, didn't get hired by my unit and just picked the next three or four bases and visited all of them. I was lucky and got picked up, but I was working on picking the next three or four units to visit if things fell through. Persistence pays off, big time.

Call recruiters and ask them if they can put you in touch with a pilot. It's cheesy but it works.

Show your face at as many units as much as possible. The guard flying community is small and word will get around.

Best of luck.

[kapilot]

IMO your too old to enlist. Keep up the rusing and you will be fine. What type aircraft?

I don't care what type of aircraft I end up in I just want to fly military. I fly "profesionally" now and feel like I could use the training and I want the experience and challenge of military aviation. Sounds corny but I wanna be the best I can.

The best advice anyone ever gave me is, "Let's face it, the one thing pilots like to talk about more than aviation is themselves.'' Hence, ask questions and get information just like the others said. Be yourself, hangout, have a drink, and ask questions. Don't tell stories or talk about yourself unless they ask. And even then, remain as humble and down to earth as possible. I've watched two people ruin their chances totally with a unit because they were telling Cessna war stories. It can be hard/awkward to just show up at a unit you don't know anything about if you don't know anyone but it will pay off.

At your age, don't worry about enlisting, just rush the hell out of the units you want to fly with. Pick the ones with the soonest possible board and rush those while applying/talking to others. If the ones with the soonest boards don't work, just move on to the next round. I enlisted, didn't get hired by my unit and just picked the next three or four bases and visited all of them. I was lucky and got picked up, but I was working on picking the next three or four units to visit if things fell through. Persistence pays off, big time.

Call recruiters and ask them if they can put you in touch with a pilot. It's cheesy but it works.

Show your face at as many units as much as possible. The guard flying community is small and word will get around.

Best of luck.

"It can be hard/awkward to just show up at a unit you don't know anything about if you don't know anyone" Yeah totally! I had an interview at a reserve unit not to long ago. It was tough being thrown into that enviroment with a group that's so close and being the stranger. I found it hard to keep the conversations flowing at times. Which was weird b/c most consider me a pretty outgoing person, and ive never really had that problem before. I guess it was due mostly that I was the stranger, in a family. Thanks for the advice. If i have another opportunity I'll try think ahead of more questions to ask them. thanks

[GreasySideUp]

We have a guy that has been rushing our unit for about a year and a half. Local guy, Always calls beforehand to see if it is all right to show up - He's shown up at about a dozen drills and just hangs out at the desk and doesn't say a word unless he's talked to. He started being invited to many of our socials and everyone now knows him by name. An O-5 asked him the other day "So, you've been hanging out forever, you don't have any dates yet?" He politely answered "I haven't even interviewed yet."

"Really?.?......."

I guarantee this guy knows more about the unit than anyone else we will interview off the street.

Our alternates hang out as well, we sent one to the show and the other has a great shot at going too since he still shows up during drills and shows an active interest in the unit.

Just show up and listen. Often if you live close by. It really can be as simple as that.

Good Luck

-j