Boom Operator Q&A

[Guest grindblaster]

I think you're wasting your time with enlisting. Skip the Guard recruiter and go find a Guard squadron. Tell the Commander there that you'll excel at UPT and you should have no trouble getting a AMS slot.

I only have a two year degree. Officers require a Bachelors.

Agreed... Get the degree, have fun being a college kid, work two jobs on the side, do ROTC, and go to UPT. The degree is step 1, not enlisting. Technique only, but a proven one.

Money is the problem, ILANG pays for college. Scholarships would only cover part of my financial obligation.

[Learjetter]

GB--I worked waiting tables at a ok joint and mopping floors at an all-night convenience store, then went to early morning classes & ROTC, slept til 4, saw the wife/kid for early dinner at our crappy little hovel, then went back to work. Did it for four and a half years, lived on corn flakes and ramen w/ pell grants and student loans. Graduated only $12k in debt, got commissioned...went to UPT. It's not easy, but it is simple. Enlisting has a bad habit of derailing possibilities, and theres always a catch in my opinion...which is why I chose not to do it. YMMV. Whatever you choose...stay focussed: degree -> commission -> UPT. Good luck!

[Guest grindblaster]

GB--I worked waiting tables at a ok joint and mopping floors at an all-night convenience store, then went to early morning classes & ROTC, slept til 4, saw the wife/kid for early dinner at our crappy little hovel, then went back to work. Did it for four and a half years, lived on corn flakes and ramen w/ pell grants and student loans. Graduated only $12k in debt, got commissioned...went to UPT. It's not easy, but it is simple. Enlisting has a bad habit of derailing possibilities, and theres always a catch in my opinion...which is why I chose not to do it. YMMV. Whatever you choose...stay focussed: degree -> commission -> UPT. Good luck!

All right, I'm going to put enlisting on hold. Good thing I haven't scheduled a date to stop by the recruiter at Scott AFB. This is getting a little off topic though, as it's a Boom Op thread. I appreciate the advice. On the 30th of this month I'm touring the campus of the school I want to attend, and I was planning on stopping by the recruiter afterwards to sign up. I guess I'll ask a few more questions while I'm on campus regarding AFROTC and scholarships and such. Thanks for your honesty.

Also, what did you get a Bachelors in? I'm seriously considering aviation flight/management since it applies to what I want to do. But I hear just getting A's and B's will do so long as it's a Bachelors.

Edited September 22, 2011 by grindblaster

[Majestik Møøse]

You won't gain any experience from being enlisted that will help you as a pilot. You may be more experienced in AF bullshit, though.

[XL0901]

All right, I'm going to put enlisting on hold. Good thing I haven't scheduled a date to stop by the recruiter at Scott AFB. This is getting a little off topic though, as it's a Boom Op thread. I appreciate the advice. On the 30th of this month I'm touring the campus of the school I want to attend, and I was planning on stopping by the recruiter afterwards to sign up. I guess I'll ask a few more questions while I'm on campus regarding AFROTC and scholarships and such. Thanks for your honesty.

Also, what did you get a Bachelors in? I'm seriously considering aviation flight/management since it applies to what I want to do. But I hear just getting A's and B's will do so long as it's a Bachelors.

Got my degree in Aviation Management at North Dakota. If money is your issue...an aviation degree won't help you. I had a 4 year ROTC scholarship and still had 25K (After help from the rents and working 2 jobs) in loans from the flight training the AF doesn't pay for. Now if aviation is your passion it shouldn't matter anyway. Worst case...you end up in a shit load of debt, pay it off in 4 years, and be fine. Most people have to spend money to make money...embrace it.

Also, hopefully you aren't over 25. The clock is ticking...

[Guest grindblaster]

Got my degree in Aviation Management at North Dakota. If money is your issue...an aviation degree won't help you. I had a 4 year ROTC scholarship and still had 25K (After help from the rents and working 2 jobs) in loans from the flight training the AF doesn't pay for. Now if aviation is your passion it shouldn't matter anyway. Worst case...you end up in a shit load of debt, pay it off in 4 years, and be fine. Most people have to spend money to make money...embrace it.

Also, hopefully you aren't over 25. The clock is ticking...

I'm 22. Yeah, if I do ROTC, I'll be definitely taking out ass tons of loans, grants, scholarships, and working down in Carbondale at the school, and in a civilian job. I guess that 100% tuition assistance is meant to just lull people into the false sense of security and hope for your dreams, and ###### me for believing it.

You won't gain any experience from being enlisted that will help you as a pilot. You may be more experienced in AF bullshit, though.

Yeah, just got done reading 25 pages of SF stories. Good times to be had I see.

Edited September 22, 2011 by grindblaster

[LoneStar]

Maybe things have changed since I graduated 2 years ago, but the AF doesn't care what your major is. If you have a 4.0 they look at it as, hey this kid can learn crap...we can jam whatever we want between his ears (sts). Also, make sure that you are doing things around your det...fastest way to be highly ranked is to look after everyone else first, and do the extra curriculars @ the det.

[Karl Hungus]

I'd be very hesitant to even do ROTC. I'd avoid anything that leads to active duty like the plague.

Get your degree. Up to you how much debt you want to incur and how worthless your degree is. Try applying directly to a guard/ reserve unit that flies something you think you'd like to fly in a location you think you'd like to live. You'll be glad you stayed as far away from AD as possible.

[scoobs]

Do you have to take Calculus and Physics in AF ROTC?

I'd be very hesitant to even do ROTC. I'd avoid anything that leads to active duty like the plague.

Get your degree. Up to you how much debt you want to incur and how worthless your degree is. Try applying directly to a guard/ reserve unit that flies something you think you'd like to fly in a location you think you'd like to live. You'll be glad you stayed as far away from AD as possible.

Whats wrong with AD? What if your guard/reserve unit goes away?

[Guest grindblaster]

Do you have to take Calculus and Physics in AF ROTC?

Whats wrong with AD? What if your guard/reserve unit goes away?

I'm not sure of the classes I'll be taking, I'm sure I'll be taking some higher level math and sciences. Aviation degrees probably aren't easy to come by, so I'll be getting tutored no doubt as I'm not up to par with my peers in math. I'm a bright kid, I'll figure it out.

Honestly, I don't know what everyones deal with AD is, obviously they know more than me since I'm a civilian, but as long as they put me in a fast mover, A-10, or CSAR helo, I'll be living my dream, regardless of AD, ANG, or AFRES. Yeah I hear there is a bunch of BS I'll be getting once I'm in, but nothing in life comes easy. I'm trying to keep my head up, and tackle this shit as it comes. I'll adapt, I'll make due, and pray that I don't get put into RPA/UAV training.

[Guest grindblaster]

But this is really getting off topic. Please PM me with any responses, don't want to piss off the mods.

[WABoom]

You won't gain any experience from being enlisted that will help you as a pilot. You may be more experienced in AF bullshit, though.

I just told a pilot what he was doing wrong on an approach today (the IP asked me what I was seeing) and he corrected it and made some great approaches. I'm sure that experience would never cross over to being a pilot though. The T.E.D. will leave you with this.

My all time favorite shirt said this on it "Pilots, looking down on people since 1903"

[Cougar Driver]

I just told a pilot what he was doing wrong on an approach today (the IP asked me what I was seeing) and he corrected it and made some great approaches. I'm sure that experience would never cross over to being a pilot though.

You're right, it probably wouldn't.

The prior E's that were in OTS and UPT with me were all great Officers and good guys. They also had a harder time getting a UPT slot than any of the ROTC or OTS guys did.

Grindblaster: you'll be happy in the long run, suck it up for a few years and work hard and you'll be fine.

[Guest]

I just told a pilot what he was doing wrong on an approach today (the IP asked me what I was seeing) and he corrected it and made some great approaches. I'm sure that experience would never cross over to being a pilot though. The T.E.D. will leave you with this.

Holy fucking shit! Seriously?

[WABoom]

Holy ######ing shit! Seriously?

Seriously! Hard to imagine an enlisted flyer could help a pilot out? Very naive on your part sir. Having a bunch of hours watching student pilots fumble their way through the early stages of flying the KC-135, I have this crazy enlisted ability to retain what I have seen from previous students. Crazy I know!

I can see how prior E's have a tougher time getting a UPT slot though. I have friends that have crossed to the dark side but usually as Navs for some reason. If you can do it, the best route is college and then apply. But...if for some reason you can get a flying job where you have to be able to read an approach plate and you have a community (KC-135's) that really include you in the cockpit, it could be beneficial.

And no disrespect meant by my response Rainman. But I have helped quite a few pilots out, booms can see quite a bit sitting where we do.

Here is a snippet from an article our sq/cc wrote this summer. "Without attending any kind of pilot training, booms become a valued member of the KC-135 Stratotanker or KC-10 Extender crews they fly with. Since the vast majority of their flying time is spent on the flight deck, they take the time to learn how to help back up their pilots." Link to said story below.

https://www.altus.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123259201

[Standby]

I just told a pilot what he was doing wrong on an approach today (the IP asked me what I was seeing) and he corrected it and made some great approaches. I'm sure that experience would never cross over to being a pilot though. The T.E.D. will leave you with this.

My all time favorite shirt said this on it "Pilots, looking down on people since 1903"

Just wondering: how many approaches have you flown and what sort of pilot cert / pilot wings do you have?

[WABoom]

Just wondering: how many approaches have you flown and what sort of pilot cert / pilot wings do you have?

Sort of a douche comment. No pilot wings here. Just a few less fillings from all your hard landings.

And BTW, I would like to think I'm one of the few TED's that gets it. I know my role, but when asked or when I see something obvious that may help out that 2nd Lt I am going to speak up. If what I say is wrong/dumb the IP would say so. Hasn't happened yet. But just ask an IP at Altus if they have ever asked the IB or EB what they are seeing from the back. I'm sure they will tell you on occasion this happens. I AM NOT A PILOT. I just sit there and watch what the hell is going on. I'm not going to argue how valuable I have been in my flying career to pilots, especially to folks that obviously don't get it. Sort of a waste of my time. I'm out, I have a Guinness to drink.

[Guest grindblaster]

Grindblaster: you'll be happy in the long run, suck it up for a few years and work hard and you'll be fine.

As in doing the ROTC route and busting my ass there to get good grades and finance four years? Or enlisting and busting my ass in an AFSC and getting good LOR's and applying my ass off to units?

Edited September 23, 2011 by grindblaster

[WABoom]

If I had the chance to do it all over, I would of done the ROTC thing Grindblaster. Just my 2 cents.

[Guest grindblaster]

Yeah, another reason for me to lock down on doing ROTC is that a former Army Capt, (who's now a dentist at the office my mother manages) talked to me today who talked to some guys in the guard and AD said before the ANG offers any tuition assistance, there is a 6 month commitment before that happens that could include a deployment. He said that it would benefit me much more to do whatever it takes to get into AFROTC and bust ass at the det. Unfortunately, he also said that due to my previous 2-year degree, it might disqualify me for the ROTC high school scholarship (Not including the in-state tuition waiver). I'm at a real crossroads here trying to figure out how to do this, and not ###### up in the process.

[WABoom]

I am sure there is someone on this forum that has been in a familiar spot that could help you out. I would talk to the admissions folks at the college you want to attend and actually find out what your options are and what you can/cannot get from an ROTC scholarship. See if this link helps in any way. Apologies if you have already looked at it. Best of luck.

https://www.afrotc.com/scholarships/

[Guest grindblaster]

Sort of a waste of my time. I'm out, I have a Guinness to drink.

Warm or cold?

[WABoom]

Does it matter? It's Guinness!

[Guest grindblaster]

I am sure there is someone on this forum that has been in a familiar spot that could help you out. I would talk to the admissions folks at the college you want to attend and actually find out what your options are and what you can/cannot get from an ROTC scholarship. See if this link helps in any way. Apologies if you have already looked at it. Best of luck.

https://www.afrotc.com/scholarships/

I'm going down to tour the campus and talk to all the admissions, financial aid, aviation dept, and the det Col on the 30th. Was going to go 'sign up' at Scott after that. Have to see what I'm eligible for given my past college. Also, the college was in the accreditation process when I graduated, so I don't even know if they'll consider my time there as valid. But then they'll refer to my high school grades which suck. Had a 3.3 when I graduated from the 2-year though, still, doesn't mean shit. Hooray for getting it from behind by a for-profit academic institution/technical college.

Edited September 23, 2011 by grindblaster

[Standby]

Sort of a douche comment. No pilot wings here. Just a few less fillings from all your hard landings.

Not a douche comment, honestly wondering what makes you qualified to comment on instrument approaches. I won't argue that a crew save is a good save, because it's true. The next time you want to comment on hard landings feel free to fly an AMP-4 on a 0 illum night. If not, then shut the ###### up.