Boom Operator Q&A

[WABoom]

Not a douche comment, honestly wondering what makes you qualified to comment on instrument approaches. I won't argue that a crew save is a good save, because it's true. The next time you want to comment on hard landings feel free to fly an AMP-4 on a 0 illum night. If not, then shut the ###### up.

What makes me qualified? How about our regs that say we need to be familiar with the approach to BACKUP the pilots up. Please refer to our MDS Vol 3, if you want to get educated on my job responsibilities. Have fun flying UAV's someday oh great one. And hard landings happen idiot, check my medical records.

This thread is Boom Operator Q & A, not idiots with their 2 cents. STANDBY you are excused. Please find another forum and tell them how big your dick is. Maybe someone else will be impressed, because this old sarge isn't.

[Guest grindblaster]

I tried to end this a while ago, as we have been off topic since halfway through page 3. Thanks to those who reached out.

How's that Guiness?

Edited September 23, 2011 by grindblaster

[WABoom]

All out. Now drinking Some Sailor Jerry's Rum and Coke. Like I was trying to say earlier bud, good luck and I hope you make the right choice for you. Let us know when you make up your mind and decide what you are going to do. If being a pilot is what you want to do, scrape and claw and do whatever it takes to get there as fast as you can. Trust me, you won't regret it. Wish I could go back, I would of loved to flown for the AF. But....I really do love being a Boom Operator so I can't complain too much.

[Guest grindblaster]

Thanks, I've got some hurdles to get over. I'll figure it out.

[Insubordinate & Churlish]

Yeah, another reason for me to lock down on doing ROTC is that a former Army Capt, (who's now a dentist at the office my mother manages) talked to me today who talked to some guys in the guard and AD said before the ANG offers any tuition assistance, there is a 6 month commitment before that happens that could include a deployment.

a.) It's 12 months (in the ILANG) before you can draw tuition assistance (called the Illinois Veteran's Grant).

b.) "could include a deployment" He's just covering his bases to be safe. I have never met an enlisted guy on my base who has ever been "voluntold" for a deployment. As a matter of fact, the last deployment I went on, we had an alternate list three deep of guys who wanted to go on the trip. We deployed again the next year, same result (a few people on the alternate list).

For better or worse, in my experience as a Guard enlisted troop (and not an enlisted aviator), if you don't want to deploy, then you simply don't. And you still get the IVG. And the Select/Reserve GI Bill. These are the facts of my experience.

Edited September 23, 2011 by Port Dog

[Standby]

What makes me qualified? How about our regs that say we need to be familiar with the approach to BACKUP the pilots up. Please refer to our MDS Vol 3, if you want to get educated on my job responsibilities.

6.41. Descent.

Before descent into unfamiliar areas, pilots will review appropriate terrain charts to increase aircrew situational awareness of obstructions. Primary crewmembers will not be involved in duties other than aircraft operations, descent and approach monitoring, and required checklist items from the initial descent point to landing.

Unless I'm looking at the wrong pub, I'd say you are wrong. Putting that aside, seems like you are on track for IP upgrade.

Have fun flying UAV's someday oh great one.

You say that like it's an insult which makes you a ######ing twat.

And hard landings happen idiot, check my medical records.

I did -- all I could find was a prescription for Vagisil. You said you weren't married...

Please find another forum and tell them how big your dick is. Maybe someone else will be impressed, because this old sarge isn't.

Edited September 23, 2011 by Standby

[Guest grindblaster]

All out. Now drinking Some Sailor Jerry's Rum and Coke. Like I was trying to say earlier bud, good luck and I hope you make the right choice for you. Let us know when you make up your mind and decide what you are going to do. If being a pilot is what you want to do, scrape and claw and do whatever it takes to get there as fast as you can. Trust me, you won't regret it. Wish I could go back, I would of loved to flown for the AF. But....I really do love being a Boom Operator so I can't complain too much.

Do you know when you start getting the new Boeing KC-46?

[Hammer]

Do you know when you start getting the new Boeing KC-46?

No.

I was an aviation major at U of Illinois and did ROTC. ROTC will not pay for flight costs, so assuming you are even eligible for a ROTC scholarship you will still have a TON of money to pay. With that being said, there are a few different types of ROTC scholarships available. I suggest you start reading the ROTC threads.

[JarheadBoom]

Do you know when you start getting the new Boeing KC-46?

2017 at the earliest, and that's just the Initial Operating Capacity (17-18 aircraft, IIRC).

With the AF (and DoD) recent track record of on-time, on-budget aircraft acquisitions, don't bet on 2017 being IOC, unless -135s start rapidly disassembling in-flight on a regular basis. And maybe not even then...

[Guest grindblaster]

2017 at the earliest, and that's just the Initial Operating Capacity (17-18 aircraft, IIRC).

With the AF (and DoD) recent track record of on-time, on-budget aircraft acquisitions, don't bet on 2017 being IOC, unless -135s start rapidly disassembling in-flight on a regular basis. And maybe not even then...

Are the -10's getting replaced by the new airframe as well?

[skinny]

Are the -10's getting replaced by the new airframe as well?

Negative. We will have to wait until they are 50+ years old before we start soliciting bids for KC-Y.

[skinny]

I really can't see how being a boom operator will help much with UPT. The USAF takes guys off the street whose last job was cleaning the slurpee machine at 7-11 and turns them into F-22 pilots. No shit.

You're right. It won't help "much". However what it does help with won't carry you through to the end. The best thing you get out of prior boom experience is largely big picture oriented. SA is the first on that comes to mind. Comms next. Comms will be fair off the bat but it doesn't take long to be on par with everyone else. The number one critique out of T-6 here in Pensacola was that I had great big picture SA but I needed to work more on refining the details. So for the first 6-9 sorties, it may help you but it won't be long until you're on the same level as everyone else in your class.

The only other thing I'll say WRT boom duties (135 specifically) is that there are some who wake up for AR and the descent check and then there are those that will sit in the jump seat every opportunity they get and learn as much as they can about what the two pilots in the seats are doing. IIRC our MQF had 2 questions regarding IAP. One was what does the barb on an IAP mean and the other was which of the following are precision approaches. Hardly in depth 217 level knowledge going on there. Sure I knew that a barb depicted a procedure turn, but that was the extent of it. Couldn't have told you how to fly the damn thing.

Overall, yeah I think it helps to a point. But in the end, you're going to have to work just as hard as everyone else and then be able to humble yourself when you're not doing as well as you hoped you would be.

[JarheadBoom]

Are the -10's getting replaced by the new airframe as well?

No. Originally, KC-X was the -135 replacement, KC-Y was the -10 replacement, and KC-Z was the not-sure-what-we'll-need-but-better-start-planning-something-anyway concept.

Last I heard, Big Blue is planning on the -10 being around until 2030 (and I hate to think about what kind of shape the -10 fleet will be in by then...). However, reference the BUFF, Bone, -135, U-2, and others I'm sure I missed, to see Blue's track record on their aircraft lifespan projections.

The only other thing I'll say WRT boom duties (135 specifically) is that there are some who wake up for AR and the descent check...

We've got some of those in the -10 too. If I had my way they'd all get kicked in the junk (whatever version of junk they possess).

[WABoom]

Unless I'm looking at the wrong pub, I'd say you are wrong. Putting that aside, seems like you are on track for IP upgrade

1. Descent & Approach Procedures − Reviewed (P, CP, N, BO)

Prior to starting penetration or letdown, the pilot will ensure the crew is informed as to the specific

terminal chart and type of approach to be used. As a minimum, the pilot flying the approach will

brief the crew on the planned descent rate, DH/MDA/VDP, missed approach procedures and assign

crew responsibilities for backing up the pilot flying the airplane if an unplanned go-around occurs.

The crew, as a minimum, will be briefed to ensure all appropriate throttles are advanced and speed

brakes are checked at zero. Lost communications procedures will be coordinated, if required. During

the descent and approach, other crewmembers will back up the pilot flying the approach and report

any deviation from prescribed procedures. The boom operator will review the approach depiction

as necessary to be familiar with course and altitude requirements. Give particular attention to the

minimum safe and emergency safe altitudes.

[Standby]

Nice detective work -- I thought you said MDS v3 though?

[WABoom]

Nice detective work -- I thought you said MDS v3 though?

I did, but I get a pass because of the beverages I was enjoying last night! According to the below reference, that you also posted, I still prove my point. As a PRIMARY CREWMEMBER I will not be doing anything other that what is listed below. Thanks for everything though.

6.41. Descent. Before descent into unfamiliar areas, pilots will review appropriate terrain charts to

increase aircrew situational awareness of obstructions. Primary crewmembers will not be involved in

duties other than aircraft operations, descent and approach monitoring, and required checklist items from

the initial descent point to landing.

[Champ Kind]

This is funny.

[Guest]

And no disrespect meant by my response Rainman. .

None taken my good man. I was being a smartass. Keep up the good work.

... and then there are those that will sit in the jump seat every opportunity they get and learn as much as they can about what the two pilots in the seats are doing.

But in the end, you're going to have to work just as hard as everyone else and then be able to humble yourself when you're not doing as well as you hoped you would be.

That pretty much sums it up. It's all in the attitude.

[ThreeHoler]

According to current projections, the KC-10 boom control units will not be able to be repaired by 2012+/-2 years. The same document specifically mentions that if the BCU does not receive a replacement before this time, we will have jets with non-functional booms as BCUs continue to fail...

Edited September 24, 2011 by ThreeHoler

[JarheadBoom]

According to current projections, the KC-10 boom control units will not be able to be repaired by 2012+/-2 years. The same document specifically mentions that if the BCU does not receive a replacement before this time, we will have jets with non-functional booms as BCUs continue to fail...

We were told at the beginning of FY11 that new BCU's were actually funded, and were about to be produced.

Here at the end of FY11, no one has seen one.

If the worst happens, at least MX will be able to work-off some of the backlogged gripes on the jets as they sit between pattern-only locals and USN/USMC/FMS/FRG support missions, while Big Blue comes up with the proper spin to the story of why their "most capable" tanker suddenly isn't.

[ThreeHoler]

The new BCUs are scheduled to begin delivery in 2012. Didn't read close enough to see if it was CY or FY.

[Karl Hungus]

Have you seen the specs on the GATM upgrades? Half-assed to say the least.

[Marco]

Grind,

For a different perspective, please read. I'm enlisted in the FL ANG. Finished my bachelors last year, about to start my MBA. I had 100% tuition assistance, got married, and have two kids. Also work full time for the Guard. Were there late nights doing homework? Sure, but you will have those anyway. It can be done, and the only debt I have is my mortgage and payment for the truck so my wife can tote my kids around in. YMMV, but it can be done. I fly at the local Navy base as a member of the Flying Club ( much cheaper than at a civilian school) and was selected as an alternate for UPT with another Guard unit. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[JarheadBoom]

Have you seen the specs on the GATM upgrades? Half-assed to say the least.

Saw a picture of the proposed CNS/ATM cockpit (I think it was a mockup, but I'm not sure) a couple years ago, and was less than impressed.

EDIT: Interesting link...

Edited September 26, 2011 by JarheadBoom

[Junglejett]

Let me throw in my 2 cents. I am enlisted aircrew and have been for 15 years plus a few months. I am also an ATP rated 4500 hour pilot with 5 type ratings currently flying manned ISR in Afghanistan. I fly with retired military folks on a daily basis..everything from 0-3 to 0-6's, CW-5's, Fighter pilots, 160th SOAR dudes, heavy drivers..you name it. Quality varies greatly. I gain a lot from my enlisted flying and it has made me a better pilot, and being a pilot has made me a better enlisted flyer. It has been a recognized asset and one I am quite proud of. Add my enlisted flight time and pilot time, I have about 7200 hours of "time".

Anyone who tells you that you are wasting your time as enlisted aircrew while pursuing a degree and hoping for a UPT slot is not doing you any favors. My previous ANG squadron looked at the enlisted flyers when it came to UPT with great results. They were a known commodity within the squadron. We hired 75+% of our UPT candidates from within. It just made sense...and still does. I still recommend it to people.

+ anyone who disregards the comments of a crew member, enlisted or commissioned, is not worth their weight on the Form-F. I have seen countless times where the FE/LM/AG broke the error chain. I have also seen pilots ignore their enlisted folks with marginal results. It is a crew airplane for a reason. The types that thought that since they were pilots, nothing else mattered, were usually the lamest crew members and scheduled around. You wanna be that guy/gal...knock yourself out.