ANG Pay System Explained (AFTP, UTA, Title 10/32)

[hindsight2020]

Guarantee for a traditional guard/reservist is 48 UTA periods, 48 AFTP and 14(15 for Guard) periods of AT. For a O-1 min running it that comes out to about 12K. You won't fly 8-10 times a month by flying the min guarantee. You'll need man days or full-up orders to fly more. Mandays are worth more than AFTPs and UTA (drill) periods (the latter two are worth the same as you said) because they include the fraction of BAH (type II if orders less than 30 days...i.e. most revolving week to week man days) and BAS per period.

So I don't know how many man days you'll get in order to fly 8-10 times a month but you won't be a 2LT for very long . By the time you get done with all training and get back to the unit you'll have less than six months left before you pin on 1LT. Add to that the possibility of being put on seasoning orders anywhere between 3 months to a year you'll be well into 1LT pay by the time you hit part-time status. But for your general info, 2 man days a week plus min guarantee for a 1LT is 28K, 3 man days a week ~36K, 4 man days a week ~43K, location dependent of course. Good luck.

[Guest gatorpilot20]

Guarantee for a traditional guard/reservist is 48 UTA periods, 48 AFTP and 14(15 for Guard) periods of AT. For a O-1 min running it that comes out to about 12K. You won't fly 8-10 times a month by flying the min guarantee. You'll need man days or full-up orders to fly more. Mandays are worth more than AFTPs and UTA (drill) periods (the latter two are worth the same as you said) because they include the fraction of BAH (type II if orders less than 30 days...i.e. most revolving week to week man days) and BAS per period.

So I don't know how many man days you'll get in order to fly 8-10 times a month but you won't be a 2LT for very long . By the time you get done with all training and get back to the unit you'll have less than six months left before you pin on 1LT. Add to that the possibility of being put on seasoning orders anywhere between 3 months to a year you'll be well into 1LT pay by the time you hit part-time status. But for your general info, 2 man days a week plus min guarantee for a 1LT is 28K, 3 man days a week ~36K, 4 man days a week ~43K, location dependent of course. Good luck.

Thanks Hindsight2020 for the good information! I appreciate it! Hope this isn’t a dumb question but what are the “15 periods of AT”?

Are man days active duty days? I want to make sure that I understand “ 2 man days a week plus min guarantee for 1LT is 28K”

Min guarantee per month is 4 flights ( based on min guarentee over the year), and if I pick up two more flights per week, it will move me to a monthly total of 12 flights per month, and the salary is approx 28K? Hmm.. maybe I should first understand what a man day is and how you pick them up.

Thanks for being patient.

[hindsight2020]

"One weekend a month, two weeks a year" song ...Your two weeks a year is that AT period I was talking about and they are AD days (meaning they include BAH and BAS fractions). Most sorties take two AFTPs or UTAs, four hour periods each, so yes about 4 flights a month would be 8 periods of pay a month (4 UTAs and 4 FTPs a month) which is min guarantee evenly spread over 12 months. And yes, mandays are active duty days, and those extra flights you say you'll pick up a week most likely come in the form of a manday pay-wise.

You have to understand that flights per month is not necessarily a good descriptor of pay in the Guard/Reserve. You have to start thinking of it in terms of pay periods to fully grasp how to maximize pay. It is for the most part a part-time job, and the pay reflects that reality. You either have the choice of being a true traditional and do your min plus certain trips here and there you want to jump into, or you can be a bum/trougher and maximize your pay by trying to work as many days as possible at the unit with the cost of not having/being able to hold a civilian job. Sometimes the unit doesn't have that many man days a week to provide you to make it possible for you to bum, or you have fellow bums and people in your relative seniority at the unit bidding for the same man day pot to make the split too thin for you to pursue it. Or it can be plentiful, it all depends on the unit and their current funding situation. So yeah 2 man days a week is alright money for a part-timer who has his/her schedule shacked (good luck for the commuter types) but not quite enough if you're going to make it your primary (and in the case of flying Guard jobs in general, sometimes the only possible job, schedule wise) source of income. The figures I posted before are ballparks, BAH rates will be more specific depending on location of course, and your dependent status.

In addition to man days there are also sets of orders out there where people are basically AD for a period of time. Much like the seasoning orders one is likely to be put on right as you hit the unit. Then there are 1 week or 2 week trips to wherever in support of excercise whatever where you get a chunk of active duty days right there by partaking in that. There are also non-flying duties at the squadron one may get man days for, and that was part of the reason I mentioned using pay periods as a gauge for pay and not flights, because you can get paid by taking advantage of non-flying duties sometimes; it may not paint you well (as a bum at least) if all you show your face at the squadron for is for a flying trip, although for many traditionals that's their bread and butter and that's ok too unit-dependent. So the moral of the story is that there are ten ways to skin that cat, but yeah 30K by working 2 additional man days a week on top of guarantee ain't going to set you up on easy street, you'll most likely need a full-time civilian job. Getting one more day a week and snagging sets of orders, TDY types etc is a more realistic goal if you want to survive on just a Guard job. Good luck

[Guest Ftrooper91]

Hey Intact, I sent your question to someone who "might" know, but no response yet. This is really out of the finance lane and is more personnel's, specifically, Civilian personnel. I did find some info on the web that may get you started. Sorry I couldn't help much more. From a quick scan on the net, there was a ANG brochure that seems to say you would get both retirements concurrently, but you should really check with the ANG finance or Personnel folks since there may be differences in AGR and Technician jobs. I want to say I saw where Guard time could be bought back. Later.

Check out chapter 22 in this OPM Manual, CSRS and FERS Handbook for Personnel and Payroll Offices

https://www.opm.gov/asd/htm/hod.htm

Could try this email and ask your question.

mailto:benefits@cpms.osd.mil

You get both, whenever you are eligible for them. Any Active Duty tours you perform you can buy back, so if as a Guardsman you get activated or pull Title 10 MPA tours to deploy you can buy that back which helps your Civil Service retirement and your SCD. Just look for "Military Deposit" info at the OPM site.

Cheers

[Guest pilotapplicant]

I was recently hired off the street by a Guard unit to attend AMS/UPT. I have not been attending drill. I was put on orders last month to go to Brooks for Medical Flight Screening. The folks in my finance office are telling me that they can't figure out how to pay me since I have not been to BMT and thus not "in the system".

I was able to get my travel voucher all taken care of.

Has anyone had this problem? Is there anyone from finance lurking around here that may have some insight?

I am not really worried about getting the money right away but I leave for AMS in a couple of weeks and I want to make sure this is squared away before I depart. I am pretty sure my commander could get this resolved but if you folks can help me do so "on my own" I would prefer that.

Gratefully,

Pilotapplicant

[Hotel]

I was recently hired off the street by a Guard unit to attend AMS/UPT. I have not been attending drill. I was put on orders last month to go to Brooks for Medical Flight Screening. The folks in my finance office are telling me that they can't figure out how to pay me since I have not been to BMT and thus not "in the system".

My thoughts are if you have been sworn in; i.e., you have paperwork showing you are now an E-5 then you should be able to get paid. If you already swore in and filled out some enlistment paperwork I'd check with your MPF to make sure they put you in the system.

I'd also get finance to clarify what they mean. You should also bring this up after you do some leg work to your contact at your squadron. Chances are you won't be the last person that has an issue - it's a good thing to have the people in your orderly room aware of it to help the next new guy who comes through and runs into the same problem.

Just my two cents.

[MacGyver]

I am a 1LT Guard Bum on the Herk.

I fly about twice a week, I have my 1 UTA weekend per month, and I usually pick up 1 cross country per month (probably average 3 days of orders). Then, I play the guard game, and "make up" a drill I might have missed, or I was already on orders for, I pick up a couple of days of orders to help out in the squadron, etc.

I looked at my pay history over the last several months and I average about $3000 per month. with a low month around $2000, and a higher month around $4000. I think this is pretty normal for most Guard Bum Pilot/Navs. I know some guys get sweet deals with the temp tech pay, and lots of orders...but that is probably not realistic for the majority.

Hope that helps for someones financial planning. I remember wondering how to set my budget before starting the guard gig.

[Guest AirTime]

How does it work if you already have a 9-5 job and get hired at a guard unit? Say you work 5 days a week at the CIV job and you go off to training. Doesn't the law require them (CIV employer) to hold your job for you? Then lets say you come back and fly twice per week with your unit, would your CIV employer have to work around that schedule? Does anyone have experience with this?

[JarheadBoom]

How does it work if you already have a 9-5 job and get hired at a guard unit? Say you work 5 days a week at the CIV job and you go off to training. Doesn't the law require them (CIV employer) to hold your job for you?

Yes, USERRA requires your civilian employer to provide a position similar to what you had when you left. There are exceptions to the rule however... so if you work for AIG, Lehman Brothers, or some other company that lost their shirt in the last week or so, you may want to look for a new job while you're still on your school-tour orders.

Your best bet is to inform your employer as early as possible, as soon as you find out for certain you're going on orders. Give them a copy of the orders as soon as you have them (USERRA requires you to do this). If it's gonna be last-minute for you orders, a letter from your unit should help smooth things out. Let them know you'd like to return when your school tour is up. Stay in touch with your boss while you're gone. An occasional phone call or email (maybe with a pic or two of what you're doing attached) will help show you intend to return.

Then lets say you come back and fly twice per week with your unit, would your CIV employer have to work around that schedule?

I don't believe so, but I could be wrong. When I went back to work after my school tour, I let them know ahead of time that I would have to work four 10-hr shifts each week, so I'd have a day every week to fly with the AF and maintain my currency/qualifications. I worded it to sound like I was doing them a favor by working this schedule - they didn't ask me a thing about it, and have never said a word about my quarterly 2-day sim requirement or my annual tour, either.

Does anyone have experience with this?

I'm living a very similar situation with my civ. employer and AFRES. Works out OK for me.

[Guest BladeShankCounterweight]

Anyone have any kind of tools to count and keep track of UTA's, RUTA'S, FTP'S, ETC....

I've heard of some guys using a excel spreadsheet to keep track of what they have and to make sure they get paid.

If so, please upload them or point me to the link.

Thanks much!

Fulltimer w/ part time bennies

[JP84U2]

Anyone have any kind of tools to count and keep track of UTA's, RUTA'S, FTP'S, ETC....

I've heard of some guys using a excel spreadsheet to keep track of what they have and to make sure they get paid.

If so, please upload them or point me to the link.

Thanks much!

Fulltimer w/ part time bennies

Blade, it is not rocket surgery to track your pay dates and an excel sheet seems like overkill. My unit has a simple paper spreadsheet they hand out, guys put them in a folder and keep them in their locker, but I prefer to just write them down in a little note book I keep in my flight suit pocket. I just write down the date, UTA, AFTP, GAFTP or AD and the number of "periods" in the case of UTA/AFTP or days of AD.

Humps

[nunya]

Anybody who was a DOD technician/temp tech still get a blank LES in the mail every month after you've left that post?  My local finance hack said it's normal.  I have a hard time believing they send LESs to every former GS in the ANG.

[scoobs]

On Saturday, September 20, 2008 at 10:10 PM, MacGyver said:

I am a 1LT Guard Bum on the Herk.

 

I fly about twice a week, I have my 1 UTA weekend per month, and I usually pick up 1 cross country per month (probably average 3 days of orders). Then, I play the guard game, and "make up" a drill I might have missed, or I was already on orders for, I pick up a couple of days of orders to help out in the squadron, etc.

 

I looked at my pay history over the last several months and I average about $3000 per month. with a low month around $2000, and a higher month around $4000. I think this is pretty normal for most Guard Bum Pilot/Navs. I know some guys get sweet deals with the temp tech pay, and lots of orders...but that is probably not realistic for the majority.

 

Hope that helps for someones financial planning. I remember wondering how to set my budget before starting the guard gig.

Take home?

[SurelySerious]

Take home?

[Hopefulflyer389]

Read through this thread and see good information for heavies, but can anyone give any current insight on fighter units for the guard/reserve? Thank you. 

[GoodSplash9]

Thanks to everyone for the great information in this thread over the last 15 years, its gold. I feel like I've got a good 75-80% understanding of how this works. Few additional questions:

-Is there a quarterly limit to how you can use your 14 (or 15 for Guard) active training days...or could you hypothetically take all of them in a row whenever you wanted? I'm guessing they are for ground/ancillary training and required testing for currency, so it makes sense to use them regularly.

-I've gathered that when you are on active duty orders or deployed...you won't be using any of your UTA/AFTP pay periods. Is the 16 AFTP pay periods per quarter a standard across the Guard/Reserve, or is this unit specific? Is there any limitation on how you can use your extra UTA pay periods(i.e. use 8 UTA pay periods in the next month you aren't on active orders)? Can you only double up UTA pay periods on drill weekends, or any time you use them?

-It seems like the smart way to work less is maximizing the days that you double up on UTA or AFTP pay periods. Unless, your trying to maximize your flight hours...then you might want to only log a single AFTP pay period each time you fly. Is that logic sound?

 

I've done some quick math for the minimum an O-4 with 10+ years of service would make on 2019 pay charts...I'd appreciate if someone could let me know if my math/logic is wrong:

Base Pay: $7,236 / Flight Pay: $1000 / BAS: $254.39 / BAH: $1500 (arbitrary)….$9,990.39/month on active orders.

UTA or AFTP Pay Period = ($7,236 + $1,000) / 30 = $274.53

Active Pay Period = ($7,236 + $1,000 + $254.39 + $1,500) / 30 = $333.01

Minimum Guaranteed Pay = (48 x 274.53 UTA) + (48 x 274.53 AFTP) + (15 x 333.01 Active days) = $31,350.03

* Any months spent on active duty orders would essentially add on top of this unless you can't use all of your UTA/AFTP periods due to the maximums for the quarter?

[brabus]

On 1/2/2019 at 7:48 PM, GoodSplash9 said:

Is there a quarterly limit to how you can use your 14 (or 15 for Guard) active training days...or could you hypothetically take all of them in a row whenever you wanted? I'm guessing they are for ground/ancillary training and required testing for currency, so it makes sense to use them regularly.

No. Most guys use them in one chunk to cover a multi-week TDY, want to work a couple weeks straight at home station doing normal stuff (flying, etc.).  There's not specific things you're required to do on AT, its just days meant to enable you to do whatever training is required for your job.

On 1/2/2019 at 7:48 PM, GoodSplash9 said:

I've gathered that when you are on active duty orders or deployed...you won't be using any of your UTA/AFTP pay periods. Is the 16 AFTP pay periods per quarter a standard across the Guard/Reserve, or is this unit specific? Is there any limitation on how you can use your extra UTA pay periods(i.e. use 8 UTA pay periods in the next month you aren't on active orders)? Can you only double up UTA pay periods on drill weekends, or any time you use them?

We get 36 AFTPs per year, max of 16 per quarter, but I just do 3 per month to keep it simple.  You cannot use those when on any type of AD orders (including UTA...so no double dipping on drill weekend).  I think there are guys out there getting more AFTPs, but I'm not sure if that's Res vs. ANG, state dependent, etc.  You normally burn 4 UTA periods per month (assuming the unit does traditional drill schedule of one per month).  If you miss a drill weekend, for example you're on AD orders at Red Flag that month, then you can make up those UTA periods at any point before or after your AD orders.

Your math is generally close, pre tax.  I don't think Flight Pay is actually $1K (just congressionally approved, AF chose to keep it lower).  If I'm wrong, someone correct me.  $25-30K is about what you can plan on for part-time pay.

EDIT: SocialD cleared it up, I get 36 AFTPs because I'm a technician and not a DSG.

Edited January 5, 2019 by brabus

[SocialD]

Your numbers are pretty close.  Brabus is right about the flight pay, I think the old 650 went to 700 and the old 840 went to 1,000 (could be wrong).  If you want to really fine tune your numbers, orders less than 30 days get you BAH type II (might be 30 days or less).

 

At a minimum, as a part time Guard guy I get 111 pay periods a year.  48 UTA, 48 AFTPs and 15 AT days.  If you become a technician then you only get 36 AFTPs.  How you use your days is something of an art and may vary depending on your squadron.  In my squadron we pretty much manage them all ourselves as our leadership let's us use our days how we see fit (within the law).  I rarely, if ever, go into work without logging 2 pay cards.  If I'm going to the base, I'm going to make a day of it and log 2.  There once was rumblings of using 1/day and the part time mafia just LOL'd.

 

AFTPs.  16/qtr max up to 48/yr.  Since they're restricted quarterly I always use these up first, even if it's UTA weekend.  I generally use the max in each quarter then start using UTAs to fill in the short fall.  This usually leaves the 4th quarter of no AFTPs and all UTAs.  Obviously that gets balanced out on years where I have a deployment.  

 

UTAs can be used anytime in the year, except while on orders.  There used to be a WOM that if you were on orders for a month, you lost that months UTAs unless you had already used them. This led guys to using up that months UTAs before the orders started.  I don't believe it's actually true, but I still try to use them before any known orders because who knows.  AFTPs can be used on TDYs in lieu of orders (with some restrictions), however UTAs generally can't unless there is TAG to TAG approval (never have seen that in 17+ years in the ANG).

 

AT can be used pretty much whenever throughtout the year.  I usually use them for one of the many TDYs we may do in a year.  That said if it's early in the year and someone else is willing to cough up ST (special training) days, I'll use those if able.  That way I'll still have my hip pocket AT days available.  Many years you'll see that close to the end of the FY a bunch of AT days show up.  There are a few nuances with using more than 15 AT in a year, but nothing big.  

 

As an airline guy in a guard fighter squadron, I find it hard to actually use up all the pay periods available due to TDYs, deployments, the airline and actually having a life.  Each month I normally work 8 pay periods in 4 days...some months more but no more than 5 days/month unless TDY.  If I do get to use all 111 of them, as a major (17 years), I expect about 30K gross (min).   That said, due to deployments, TDYs, etc...I've rarely dropped below 50K/yr.  2018 was a 3 month deployment plus a single 2 week TDY and I think I grossed 65k.

 

Best of luck, I've been in the ANG for almost 18 years and I'm still learning about all the pay statuses we have available.  With the exception of technician, I've been in pretty much every pay cateogry we have....AT/ST/UTA/AFTP/ADOS/AGR/ADSW.  I've deployed overseas with another squadron and have sat alert with other squadrons.  Even went TDY with my squadron while on alert orders with another squadron...talk about blowing finances mind!  

Edited January 4, 2019 by SocialD

[Duck]

Quick question about backlogging AFTPs in last Fiscal Year.

I’m having some issues with HARM jacking up my records and long story short I will probably need to file AFTPs for August-September but after 1 October. Is there any issue with this that any of y’all know about since it would be FY20, but I’m filing stuff for FY19?

Thanks!


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[Scooter14]

Quick question about backlogging AFTPs in last Fiscal Year.

I’m having some issues with HARM jacking up my records and long story short I will probably need to file AFTPs for August-September but after 1 October. Is there any issue with this that any of y’all know about since it would be FY20, but I’m filing stuff for FY19?

Thanks!


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Duck

It’s not optimal obviously but i think it can be done. Talk to your finance next week. IIRC you can do it to a point. I remember chasing down guys for sigs (we used to have to sign them multiple times) well into October.

As long as they “load” them up for you into AROWS it should be alright, but verify with Finance and your DO just to make sure.

[Duck]

Duck

It’s not optimal obviously but i think it can be done. Talk to your finance next week. IIRC you can do it to a point. I remember chasing down guys for sigs (we used to have to sign them multiple times) well into October.

As long as they “load” them up for you into AROWS it should be alright, but verify with Finance and your DO just to make sure.

Thanks brother.


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[herkbum]

Yes. Get them in the system and talk to Finance ASAP.


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[Orbit]

I should have read this thread about a year ago.  Great info for new dudes!

[Flyman]

I assume seasoning orders are AD orders? Do you get BAH for your HOR or unit location while on AD orders?

[hindsight2020]

duty station. And Type-I only when orders exceed 30 days, otherwise type II. Welcome to America's lesser paying regional airline 😄