Regional Pilot, or AD Pilot!!

[BFM this]

RP,

I've seen guys all but drop off the face of the earth going to back to back PME schools, staff tours, FAC(ALO) tours, etc. If they were good sticks when they left, they were good sticks when they got back. You wouldn't be the first guy to take a break from flying. I hadn't logged more than a half dozen hours in the two years prior to starting UPT. For my own satisfaction, I got my BFR and instrument currency up to date, and got back in the game without missing a beat.

Bottom line: you're getting wrapped around the axle about stuff that has been time-proven to not be a factor. For example, American fighter pilots (chime in and correct me if I'm wrong) don't log a lot of time--sometimes less than 300 hours in a year. Given the current staffing system, most of the leadership of said fighter carreer field have spent some amount of time out of the jet. Yet American fighter crews are simply the best in the world.

Once again, what is it that you want to do?

[scoobs]

Here is my plan.My parents will never get to retire because lack of planning and luck.I don't want to end up in there shoes so here is my plan.After college join the Guard/Reserves in the area I like.After UPT bum around and build my flight time.Once I reach the mins for the regional airlines or charter I will decide if I want to jump ship or stay bumming.My goal is to fly corporate aircraft so I would check the airports and make connections.Once I reach a couple thousand hours apply for that dream job and get it.Then when I turn 60 I will have 30 years in the reserves and at least 20 years for a corporation.And if you decide to fly Pt 91 like me there is no age you have to retire.Hope this helps.

[Guest RookiePilot]

Thanks Scoobs, nice plan dude! I like corporate aviation myself, that's really where I got into aviation itself. a family friend is the GM at the only FBO at SMO (Santa Monica, CA) airport. They get at least 5 G-IV's aday, on a rwy that's only 4987'! I've illegally rode right seat myself , on a more than a few repo flights. Usually the 3 min ride over to neighboring VNY or BUR! I have question that I can't seem to find the answer for, even my all-knowing recruiter is stumped on this one! On my package, my 1st option is Pilot, but I'd like to be an ATC guy if I can't for some reason get a pilot slot. Can Officer's be Controller's or is this training only for Enlisted members? Can I even apply as an Officer in a rated and non-tech feild at the same time? The reasoning is I can't seem to find anything else I'm interested in, possibly except Air Traffic Controller. What is military ATC like is it similar to civilian, I know alittle about ATC, so I know the basics. Just trying to find a contingency plan if I don't get a slot, I'm sure i'm competitive, but maybe there are better! And last are there any mil ATC guys/girls on the board. thanks and my initials are RP!!!!!!!

[scoobs]

I am pretty sure you can.But an officer does more then ATC.He is in charge of different parts of the airfield.Check the Af website for the real name.I also applying for AD so I can fly either way.Good luck

[Guest RookiePilot]

I checked the AF.com site after dinner last night and I think it's called airfield ops manager. does anyone know exactly what this career field choice does. And is the AF even accepting apps. for non-tech, guys with an M.S. sorry to ask so many questions but my recruiter isn't back 'til Monday. His wife just had a baby, so I'm kinda out on a limb here. Thanks!!!!!!!!

[Guest Piperpilot2004]

I am not sure if anybody is going to be able to make that decision for you. Thats a tough decision, I know. Honestly, getting a pilot slot is also luck along with accomplishment. If you really want to become a pilot you should go for civ (not that I think it is better, but if you want to fly most def and not take the risk of getting stuck behind a desk, thats your best bet) There are a lot of gifted people who dont get slots unfortunately and when you go for a slot, its just like gambling. If you dont get the slot, you may be put behind a dest :(

As for me, I would take the gamble cuz I want to also serve just as bad, and honestly with the airlines the way they are today, I think my life would be more stable in the military-flying or not, it would be my choice..

good luck!

[Guest rlb]

Originally posted by Piperpilot2004:

[QB] There are a lot of gifted people who dont get slots unfortunately and when you go for a slot, its just like gambling. If you dont get the slot, you may be put behind a dest :(

If you don't get the slot then walk away, it's that simple (for OTS at least). If they offer you some other job you don't have to join. Also, you incur no commitment until you graduate from OTS.

[ 08. March 2005, 22:32: Message edited by: rlb ]

[Guest hte3279]

Someone threw out some quality regionals to think about and I'd definitely add Horizon to that mix - successful on it's own (as an Alaska subsidiary), but they've begun to add some contract routes for the LCCs, too. Pretty good hubs, too - Seattle, Portland, and Denver (now that Frontier's "hired" them). They take care of their first/second year FO's better than most regionals, see the airlinepilotpay.com link above (far cry from what you'll see at Great Mistakes, errr Lakes...be leery of Mesa, not sure I'd want to work for Ornstein). Airlines aren't for me at all, but Horizon would be high on my list if they were. Honestly, it sounds very possible that the airlines may be more your bag. Link fron flyinjunky above has great stuff in it, read carefully.

[Guest RookiePilot]

Thanks for the replies, I also want just as much to serve as an Officer. However to be honest with myself I believe that I would not be happy as for instance an ABM or NAV or non-tech position! I really want to be a pilot in the USAF, and really I'd fly anything, fighters, heavies, herk, I really just want to fly! But, like I mentioned, I also want to fly, I'd rather not sit behind a desk for 4 days out of the week, and then say on Fri. get to jump in "my" F-15 ( I happen to like the E model!) and go log a single 1.3hr sortie! Just a question on my mind not really related to this topic but maybe someone can chime in, I'd like to know if a LT. could possibly get a loan for a 2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06. Could an LT. possibly afford a $62500 car, and does the AF offer any financing through the credit union. Just alittle wishful thinking!!

[ 08. March 2005, 23:43: Message edited by: RookiePilot ]

[Guest RaptorwannaB]

hey just stoppin by.. avoiding a paper and im reading this stuff.. RookiePilot, as far as flying goes, take what you can get in the AF its getting very very competitive! but with the loan, you can get up to 25,000 for a loan with a low sub 4% interest rate. That said.. DON'T spend more than that on a car after coming in. In fact, it would be wise to not even put yourself in a 25,000 hole. You'll be making around 26,000 base pay a year and by the time its paid off, the car may not even be in good mechanical condition. People often refer to Lts driving nice cars as Lt mobiles. You'll get it from financial counselers in the future but in the military, you wont be making a huge paycheck, so save it up for potential hard times and for when you really need it.

Short answer: you wont be buying a 62,000 car right off

[Guest RookiePilot]

Another question my recruiter told me also that the competition is getting difficult, and that my having completed Grad. studies would not be to my advantage. Is this true, I have thought that most higher-level Officers, say O-4 and higher had have completed Grad studies. Or at least it was to their advantage to do so! Also my having maintained a 3.95GPA from basically freshmen year of school, I'd think that my academic success would be at least preferable!

[Guest rlb]

RookiePilot wrote:

"However to be honest with myself I believe that I would not be happy as for instance an ABM or NAV or non-tech position!"

Then apply for pilot only, and if they offer you another job turn it down.

"But, like I mentioned, I also want to fly, I'd rather not sit behind a desk for 4 days out of the week, and then say on Fri. get to jump in "my" F-15 ( I happen to like the E model!) and go log a single 1.3hr sortie!"

First of all, it’ll usually be more than 1 sortie per week. Secondly you said you’d fly anything, so fly heavies they fly quite a bit. Third, I see that you are working on your PPC. You probably aren’t flying more than a few times a week right now. What makes you think that you need to fly more to be satisfied? Right now flying is still an extra activity that you choose to do. When it’s your job your attitude may change about it. I know mine did. I flew 15 to 20 hours a week as a civilian. I flew a lot, so that I could pay the bills and get enough hours to get a better job. I used to work 7 days a week when times were tight. I’d be with a student on a Sunday and they’d be all excited about getting to fly on a beautiful Sunday afternoon. I’d just be thinking yeah, great I get to work on this beautiful Sunday afternoon. I always wanted to get a job that flew less. I think I’ve found the perfect job as far as that goes. Also don’t worry about building hours for airlines. Chances are--no matter what your MWS is-- that after your ten year commitment you will have enough hours to get an airline job. Whether or not they are hiring then is the real question.

Finally, I get the impression that you don’t really want to fly in the military, and you’re trying to rationalize why you shouldn’t. If that’s the case then don’t apply right now, maybe in a few years you’ll change your mind (you have until 30 to start UPT, I applied right before I turned 28 and started UPT 10 months before turning 30). I kind of did the same thing when I was your age. The thought of flying for the AF or Navy was cool, but I was dragging my feet. For 5 years I thought about joining but, I’d come up with little reasons not to (mainly the ten year commitment). One day my wife said “you’re all talk, why don’t you get off your ass and do it (join the AF)”. I went to the recruiter the next day and have been happier since.

[Guest RookiePilot]

I am only applying for a pilot slot, but I really want to serve in the AF also. Mainly because the uniforms look so cool, J/K! But really I'm following the footsteps of my family, and I have dreamt of this goal since I was like ten. that's when we moved to LAS ( or LVS for the mil guys!) and we lived in the "burbs" so I could literally stand in my backyard and watch F-15s,F-16s,B-52s and heavies as well depart rwys 21L&R outta Nellis AFB. I even spent the weekend with a family friend that we met , a Capt. at the time who had the coolest job in the world to a ten year old. He was a Viper driver! And lastly I do have some aspirations to fly Civ., I realy don't mind the ten year commitment since I'm only 23, but really I just want to fly. And maybe do the desk stuff as a side thing. I believe that I'd like to fly enough to stay current, that's my concern, is that I don't wanna fly so little that I "scare" myself when I climb into the cockpit. And just a question, I've been thinking about since the Viper and "Mudhen" are both multi-role A/C if they encountered each other in an air-to-air engagement, would more than likely come out the winner! Just a question, since I don't really know any fighter pilots since moving to SoCal.

[Guest RookiePilot]

And to add to my post when they would "reverse" the traffic, and land rwys 03L&R they would fly final over my house! To a ten year old, this was paradise!

[Guest F16PilotMD]

You will fly plenty in the military. Often, too much. And, you cannot compare any GA flying hour to a military flying hour. They are as different as you can imagine.

Decide if you want to be a military officer. If so, consider that option. Don't base a military decision on the flying...because things change. You change. I would have never considered my path would happen when I was in UPT. Like everyone else, I thought I would fly jets everyday until I died. Then, real life happens and things change. It comes back to do you want to be "IN" or not. I still do, so I still am...flying the F-16 or not.

BTW, if you do join the AF and go to UPT, you will find that the majority of those you meet are "exceptionally gifted". Expect to take some sh8t for that comment and learn from it if you do sign on the dotted line. Good luck.

[ 09. March 2005, 21:19: Message edited by: F16PilotMD ]

[Guest hte3279]

I forgot to be the first to give you some sh*t for the "exceptionally gifted" comment my earlier post, but 1) as mentioned, the AF is full of exceptional people (albeit exceptional in a variety of different ways) - that's an expectation and something that it serves very little purpose to mention (exhibit A would be the Viper driver/flight surgeon combo above....) Folks that are good crap and truly humble (yet confident) are the ones that everyone wants to work with 2) The AF needs warriors much more than academians. Both have their place in the AF, but the need for the first is obviously much greater than the second, especially for a young guy in any flying community.

I'm giving you flak in a good-natured manner, but also to help you further understand what you're getting into potentially. Our AF is what it is because of the people in it - I haven't see it all, but I have an extraordinarily difficult time believing you will work with folks of this caliber anywhere else and you may not understand how much that means until you do. And never forget that this is a calling, not a career. If you're a smart guy, there's more $ to be made elsewhere (and you won't be on-the-job 24-7 there) and - if you make good decisions and enjoy some luck - the airlines might very well be one of those places (even with the dominance of the LCCs and other forces at work). If you want to do some amazing things with unbelieveable people and impact this world first hand (instead of watching it on CNN), this is for you. Think about the big picture stuff first and the "details" second (there's nothing wrong with asking all the questions you are, but don't get wrapped around the axle with how much you'll fly before you worry about whether or not this is for you...and it'll all change potentially by the time you get there anyway, ask any junior KC-135 driver how much their ops tempo has changed in the last couple years). If you decide this isn't for you (at least for now), there's absolutely nothing wrong with that and you're doing yourself and the AF a huge favor by having the guts to be honest with yourself. You're not a lesser person for deciding that - this isn't for everyone - and the airlines serve a vital function as well.

[Guest RookiePilot]

Thanks man, great post! My recruiter should be saying that to me!!

[Guest SnakeT38]

Lots of good advice on this thread. I have mentored many on this very subject. After some

20,000 plus jet hours in USAF, USAFR and airlines

I ALWAYS recommend DIRECT entry to Guard and Reserve units for UPT........absolute best way.

No offense to AD guys, but I wouldn't recommend AD to my WORST enemy. "Their" management team has

continued to "eat their own" since time began and NOTHING will change that. It happens in Guard and Reserve but YOU HAVE OPTIONS that don't exist to AD. To those that want to go civilian off the bat,

IMO.............which has been tested MANY times,

THERE IS NO COMPARISON TO MILITARY PILOT TRAINING.

I'm not talking about being able to do Single Engine ILS' and quote the FAR's, I'm talking the military POUNDS JUDGEMENT INTO YOUR CRANIUM EVERYDAY YOU ARE THERE. I have had so MANY civilian ONLY guys that to me don't even need to be driving cars let alone airplanes. This doesn't say all military guys are "perfect" either but AT LEAST I know what they are thinking when they sit across from me. My 2 cents........email with specific questions.