Are wives friends with female pilots?

[Guest spar91]

when i started upt, the wives were very friendly to the 2 of us (female pilots in my upt class).

i was invited to dinner when the married folks invited other single pilots over, we all hung out and had fun.

when i got to my first base, the unit was small, and though i wasn't invited to the spouses' club meetings, when the wives came to the squadron they were all real nice and friendly too. adn we still went out to dinner in groups and what not.

i'd say that the wives in my current squadron are not as nice or friendly.

my personal opinion is that the spouse club "leader" should invite female pilots to their group - at least once. why not?

i'd love to meet more women and make friends. i'd love to be able to help them out in any way i can - perhaps babysitting for someone one night, whatever. i'd love to meet for coffee sometime, or chat about the best pots and pans.

one night i was working late because i had another function on base to go to. the spouses (wives) club had a meeting in our squadron "heritage room". one young kid (5?) was playing on the floor near my desk. another young lady (12?) was there to help babysit. i sat down and played with them both, i love kids. the mom came out once to check on her son. i was in uniform. i was clearly a member of her husband's squadron. we chatted for a few minutes about kids. then she went back to the group. why wasn't i invited to join their get together? the place i sat on the floor outside of the heritage room didn't hide me from their view. but no one ever said anything to me.

is there some code of conduct about not associating with female pilots? or am i lucky enough to work with spouses whose wives are inconsiderate?

could i have gone up and introduced myself? sure. but the vibes i was getting were that i wasn't wanted.

what do wives think about female pilots?

thanks in advance for your thoughts.

[Guest AFMama]

I think you are all awesome! And I'm very jealous! I'm hoping to start on my PPL once we get settled in our new place!

As far as wives not inviting you, maybe they are intimidated? Maybe they think you are competition? You know, you have this awesome job that also happens to be their husband's life. I think it's sad when women get that insecure, but, I guess we all feel it at one time or another.

I hope they start to include you more! Maybe if you talk to them first, it would ease a little tension in their minds?

[Guest jbaby1547]

my husband is not in upt yet so i can't say from experience, but i would think that they don't know that you want to go be in their group. it's like when people say that the pretty girls never get asked to the prom, because guys think that she would never go with them or she already has a date. also, from what i've read on this board, it sounds like the wives husbands (pilots) are so busy, maybe they think you are busy too. i'm just an outsider and i can't say really what is going on, but i am going to be a pilot's wife and i would be intimitaded by a female pilot, and think you might not want to hang out with me and my friends. i would say that it is up to you to make the first move to let them know that even though you have this awesome job that not many women have, you are still a woman and want to do those kind of things that they do. give them a shot and if they still don't invite you to do things with them it will be their loss not to know a woman who is brave enough to fly.

[ 09. May 2005, 00:04: Message edited by: betterhalf ]

[Toro]

There is no code of conduct, I don't think these wives are inconsiderate or intimidated and I doubt they consider you competition. I think betterhalf is right on - you are a pilot, not a spouse, and they treat you as such.

There are four females in our squadron who we don't treat much differently than we would other guys. None of them are active with the spouses group, but it is by their own choice - they are aircrew and would prefer to spend their time with us. From what I have seen, the flight suit bond is stronger than the gender bond. If the spouses are having a meeting in our bar and one of the guys walks in, none of them bat an eye - why should it be any different if a female walks in?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with you wishing to be more involved with the spouses, but you're going to need to step forward and make that very clear to them if you want them to put forth any effort.

[Guest Youngnita]

I agree with Toro. I am not a pilot, but I am aircrew and honestly I feel more "at home" with my male crewmembers than I would with their wives. Not saying I don't or wouldn't want to enjoy doing things that they do, but I just don't feel like I have as much in common with them. Even though I have kids, I probably would talk more about my kids with my crewmembers more than I would their wives.

Having grown up in a military family, my father was aircrew all of his career, honestly I could count on one hand how many friends my mother had whose husbands were aircrew as well. Most of her friends were married to military members, but my mom didn't want to be friends simply because my father flew with their husbands. If she liked someone, she did, and if it wasn't her crowd, then she just didn't. It wasn't based on association through her husband's career path.

I think it is up to you to make the first move if you want to be included. I certainly don't think it is because they are intimidated or anything like that. It probably just didn't occur to them.

[ 09. May 2005, 06:35: Message edited by: Flylady ]

[Guest marykhall]

Toro's right on. My husband's squadron has had a few women pilots. Unless you specifically say you'd like to hang out with the wives, you probably won't be invited to spouse meetings. Most of us are full-time moms and assume someone who flies like our husbands just doesn't have the time to come to our activities. Also, we consider ourselves a "support" function for the squadron and because you are part of the squadron, it figures that you wouldn't want to bake cookies/make halloween goodie bags/pack care packages for yourself.

That said, we'd probably love a chick's inside view of the squadron! Let your commander's wife know you are interested in hanging with the wives...I'm sure you'll be welcomed with open arms.

[Guest spar91]

thanks for the replies.

i look forward to meeting our *new* cc's spouse to see if there's anything i can do to help out.

here's a corollary question:

how many spouses clubs out there send invitations for their meetings/whatever to the spouses *of* the female pilots?

pgw - as a sq member, i am one of 150. if i made halloween goodies/care packages, there are 149 other people that benefit, i wouldn't look at it like i'm making these care packages for myself.

[Guest SpyGadget]

As a spouse *of* a female student pilot I think I can shed some light on your question.

I was invited to most of the functions either by mail or phone call and I attended about 10% of the functions due to my demanding work schedule.

I can understand your feeling of being left out but I also understand that the wives wouldn't think a husband would want anything to do with scrap booking, talking about pregnancy, and all the other things that wives do. I guess the same goes for female students.

I had to make the effort and they met me half way. You get out of it what you put into it. The wives.. I mean "spouses" met for lunch every Friday in Delrio and they always made sure to call me on Thursday night. I went to as many of those as possible and yes, I was the outsider.

And yes, we talked about pregnancy and how annoyed they were at their husbands and which husband was the biggest baby when they got home from their long hard day at UPT. We also talked about work and their jobs and how glad we were to have each other for support during such a stressful time.

I agree with -Betterhalf-. There were several single females in my wife's class that were flirty and not very professional. I know for a fact that some of the wives were worried and even VERY pissed. One girl in particular did not get invited to things on purpose. Not to say that this is the way it works all over but this is just one instance that I have first hand knowledge of.

My wife did get invited to baby showers and all that stuff and loved every minute of it. I don't know if she was just more likeable or if it was the fact that she was off the market and out of the game. While she was doing “girl stuff” I flew remote control planes with the guys, went to the lake, drank beer, and all the other guy stuff that guys do.

Having said all that I don't think you can just put spouses, pilots, student pilots, or anyone for that matter into a single category.

We washed back a class and it was like night and day as far as the social dynamic of both groups. The first group was great to hang out with on the weekends and we had an awesome time but my wife didn't get invited to much.

The second group didn't party hard on the weekends but did include my wife and myself in things like lunches and baby showers.

You just have to make it known that you want to be involved like I did. Air Force spouses are some of the best people I’ve ever met and I'm proud to be a part of that group.

You know... we're all in this together. It takes all of us to make it work and the more you put yourself out there and the more you get involved the better time you will have. And there will always be those people who define themselves by their job title and can’t separate work from anything else. Let them just be who they want to be and know that one day they will retire and wish they would have let it go a long time ago before it was too late.

Let me know if you have any more questions from a "Man Spouses" point of view.

[Guest marykhall]

Originally posted by spar91:

how many spouses clubs out there send invitations for their meetings/whatever to the spouses *of* the female pilots?

Our commander's wife sends out blanket emails to ALL spouses male and female, officer and enlisted. I'm thinking most of the large squadrons' spouses get a lot of their info about goings on that way now so you don't always have to attend meetings to be in the know. Occasionally, we've had husbands participate in meetings but not often.

[Guest Frog1995]

In our last two squadrons, one of which was UPT, our squadrons included female pilots. Some of them were active in our events, but most were not. We also went out to eat with them. Most were married to other pilots in our squadron and usually when we were at parties they talked with the guys. I guess they did have more in common with them than with the wives. I think you will have to make an effort to be included. I think most wives are willing to be friends they just don't know if you are.

[Guest flychick]

My DH is getting ready to head to OTS with a pilot slot, so I can't say firsthand that I've experienced it. I can, however, imagine how I would feel, and as a civilian pilot myself, I would be (and am) jealous! I would say intimidation may be a factor.....and like someone said earlier, they may feel like you wouldn't want to be associated with them.

Kill 'em with kindness! Introduce yourself. As a wife, I would feel much more at ease if a woman pilot came up to me first and indicated that she wanted to be a part of what all the women spouses do! Most (normal) women would welcome you and appreciate the fact that you want to get to know them.

If they are still standoffish, well, then you know that they aren't really people you want to be associated with anyways! GOod luck, and props to you for being where you are today!

[Guest IAGuardWife]

You really bring up an interesting point. In my experience, most female pilots seem pretty uninterested in the wives of their fellow pilots. Most female pilots consider themselves "one of the boys" and don't pay much attention to wives. Your interest in participating in spouse functions and getting to know the other women is a refreshing alternative!

I say let them know you are interested and see what happens!

[Guest juliecole]

Some of my best frineds while my hisband was a nav were the female pilots and navs. I had a lot more in common with them,(we were the same age, enjoyed shopping cooking going out at night).

One of my best friends, was a a single gal at the time, who was good friends with my husband. She called me up when we PCSd to the base and have been friends since then. I am so thankful for that phone call. I would either tell you flight or squadron commander that you want to go out tiwth the wives or I would call a spouse of one of the guys that you get along well with and start out that way.