Anyone not want to fly fighters?

[Guest Hydro130]

Originally posted by BigIron:

Yeah...I was starting to get embarrassed for her. Thank you kind sir.

[The Kayla]

Good god... I'm about to ask some one to please explain to me what all this " T-38 FAIP when there was only one (T-38) track" means..

Monica, I think the moral of this Thread is that guy's are going to want to fly what they want. I don't think it matters if they want to fly fighters or heavies.. as long as they do their job teh right way the first time around. Who cares if they want to fly fighters or not. More power to them.

hell, i'm not even in the military, just married...and I can understand WHY they would want to fly fighters... the thrill the excitement.. even bragging rights.

[Guest homewith4]

Kayla,

About 15 years ago, they started SUPT. Before that every student flew tweets and every student flew T-38. Then 3-6 weeks before drop night, you found out if you were FAR (fighter/attack/reconnisance)rated or TTB (tanker/transport/bomber).

Mrs Hog's indicates that her hubby's goal was for all his students to be "good" enough to get the FAR rating and then decide which A/C they wanted to fly (even if it was a heavy). I think she implied that only the guys who currently don't make it to T-38s are weaker flyers that would have probably washed out of the T-38 track that they had to do 15 years ago.

Although I found her posts entertaining, I think she was full of BS most of the time. I sounds like she is basing all of her assumptions on her husband's T-38 FAIP tour many moons ago (her words, not mine). I gather he is now retired, but at some point was the CC of a A-10 RTU. She also indicates that the some of the "best" pilots are opting for the T-1 track b/c they might not be good enough to get through 38s.

She was accurate on one issue...very few fighter guys are T-6 IPs...and it is often at the CC or DO level.

[ 15. October 2006, 09:23: Message edited by: homewith4 ]

[Guest AFwife62406]

I THINK T-38 FAIP is talking about T-38 (training jet for fighters/ bombers) instructor pilot.

There is a good possibility my husband will class up tomorrow, although there is only 1 spot left for the class that starts tomorrow and 2 guys that are ready to start from what we understand. Luckily, the other guy would MUCH rather have 3 weeks off and wait until the next class and my husband would much rather start now, so hopefully that'll all work out. The ironic thing though - the 5 AF guys that are starting tomorrow all want T-38's.

Also, I was wondering if anyone could confirm this. We heard from a USAFA grad who's in UPT now that the drops for 2007 are mainly F-16's and C-17's. He said there were going to be over 300 of each. Does anyone know if this is true?

[ 15. October 2006, 09:23: Message edited by: AFwife62406 ]

[Guest talondriver]

Originally posted by homewith4:

Kayla,

About 15 years ago, they started SUPT. Before that every student flew tweets and every student flew T-38. Then 3-6 weeks before drop night, you found out if you were FAR (fighter/attack/reconnisance)rated or TTB (tanker/transport/bomber).

Actually, they got rid of the FAR/TTB rating about 16 years ago in the mid 90-XX classes. I was in one of the first classes that wasn't given a rating but had to qualify in whatever jet we wanted...and this brought in the flight commander/IP more into the process.

For example...Stan wants an F-15. His '38 leadership doesn't think he can handle the multi-tasking at warp 9 but can maybe handle an A-10 at 280KIAS. No disrespect to the Hog community but this was a common example given to explain the "new" process. I think it was more of a factor for students going to ANG/AFRES fighter units who needed to qualify in their respective MWS (see example above).

[ 15. October 2006, 11:25: Message edited by: talondriver ]

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Originally posted by talondriver:

For example...Stan wants an F-15. His '38 leadership doesn't think he can handle the multi-tasking at warp 9 but can maybe handle an A-10 at 280KIAS.

Ugh.

And here is where FAIPs get the reputation of being complete and total idiots.

Classic scene of a bunch of FAIPs in the Flt CCs office prior to ranking the students...

"Well sir, we just don't think so and so can handle the amazing speed of the F-15 so lets give him something slow...like an O-2."

Two years later the guy who got the O-2 is leaving that assignment on his way to F-15 RTU and the FAIP is still waiting for his first real operational assignment. So much for the great FAIP wisdom. Classic.

I can't tell you how many FAIPs told me I was insane for "only putting an A-10" on my dream sheet when I was the protected guy in my class. It was unbelievable and stupid, according to them. None of them had ever even flown anything except the Tweet and the T-38. I gave them the same answer I would give to someone checking sock length in the chow line..."Noted, thanks."

I have always been blown away by the FAIPs who thought they knew what kind of airplane a guy should fly, like they knew the square root of fvck all about any of the missions. I have been equally impressed by the FAIPs who admitted they knew nothing and just wanted their sentence to end so they could find out what happens away from the training command.

[Guest talondriver]

Originally posted by Rainman A-10:

And here is where FAIPs get the reputation of being complete and total idiots.

Classic scene of a bunch of FAIPs in the Flt CCs office prior to ranking the students...

Well...I'll leave the FAIP thing alone. :cool:

Also, note that I said "'38 leadership". I'm pretty sure most FAIPs would have the SA to keep their hole shut during the ops talk.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Actually, I think this discussion is germane to the original question.

Originally posted by talondriver:

Well...I'll leave the FAIP thing alone.

Cheers.

I'm not looking to pick a fight. I just have a serious issue with the mindset of "it goes fast it must be hard, it goes slow it must be easy" philosophy. I have too many examples of how incredibly flawed and dangerous this mindset is.

Originally posted by talondriver:

Also, note that I said "'38 leadership". I'm pretty sure most FAIPs would have the SA to keep their hole shut during the ops talk.

Noted.

However, I did not see that level of SA as a standard during my two pilot training experiences.

My first experience was at Ft Rucker. My first IP was a retired Army CWO4 who had four tours in Vietnam and over 10,000 hours of flight time. Ft Rucker was full of instructors who had operational and combat experience. They were able to use that experience to tell the students WHY it was important to learn the things they were teaching.

The USAF instructor cadre at Rucker was small and 90% of them had operational experience. You could only be a FAIP at Rucker if you were very good (like Rotorhead) AND if you were a volunteer. It was a very good sign if they asked a student if they were interested in staying as an instructor. No one asked me if I wanted to be a FAIP.

When I got to Vance I saw an entirely different atmoshpere. The training was excellent but very different. I was lucky, the FWQ IPs were hand selected for their ability to see the big picture and for their excellent instructor qualities. It was dangerous flying with "students" who could talk on the radio, navigate to the aux field and/or the areas on the frst day and fly instruments one minute and make the standard student mistake that kills you (seemingly out of the blue) the next.

The attitude of some of the FAIPs on the base was that they knew what was required to get 'er done in the ops world. They also had very strong opinions about what was good and what was bad in terms of the type aircraft a person flew or wanted to fly. It only takes a few to stain the entire group. I saw many examples and they were so unbelievable I'm pretty sure I'll never forget them.

I am not the only person to have experienced this. In fact, I know I'm not.

There is a reputation that FAIPs have to live down. These are guys who are great pilots and were excellent ATC instructors. Guys who were one RCH from getting the jet of their choice when they went through UPT. I can't imagine what it is like to fly white jets for 3-5 years and watch guys less talented (min FAR) get all fired up as they prance off to fighter FTUs.

Some of the best fighter pilots I've ever flown with (including FWIC IPs) were FAIPs. I know you had to be damn good to get shacked as a FAIP.

The overall attitude at that time was "faster is more difficult." I think it probably still is.

[Guest corbynaylor]

"How does the T-37/T-6 to T-38 to FTU track work current day? I could swear that just a few years ago, if you made it through UPT AND T-38s, and then onto an FTU and washed out there, there is no turning back to go fly heavies or bombers, no wings for you pal…sorry to pop your dream bubble, wish we would have known so you could still have a career in aviation, but you need to choose another career field now. Have a nice life.

Has that process changed?"

THose pilots usually end up with bombers of heavies. We have two fiends who had that happen to. one washed out of IFF and got buffs. One washed out of RTU and got c130s. We also have a friend that hooked the fuge (couldn't pull the g's) and he got B2s.

[Guest corbynaylor]

Talondriver has a good point that you can go from fighters to heavies, but you can't generally go from heavies to fighters. So, if you think you might EVER want to fly fighters, you should probably try to do it right out of UPT.