Passports

[TMFan]

SOFA question: I know in Korea for example non command sponsored dependents get SOFA but does anyone know in Europe if it is the same?

According to the NATO SOFA, yes (in NATO countries). The SOFA defines a dependent as "the spouse of a member of a force or a civilian component, or a child of such member depending on him or her for support" and I don't see any stipulation that the dependent has to be on your travel orders to enjoy the benefits of the SOFA.

Source: https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_17265.htm

Depending on your assignment and location, you and your dependents might also enjoy diplomatic status under the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations

[addict]

on SOFA: The status of dependents is in the passport or on some other document, which is what ends up as a SOFA stamp but this depends on each country. NATO SOFA linked above is from 1949. Bravo. In the meantime, the USG has made amendments with individual nations.

Ramstein (for Germany), will need that sponsorship.

Tip: buy a round trip ticket that returns in less than 90 days when departing the United States. The first barrier to entry will be at the airport, at "document check"

Edited August 20, 2014 by addict

[TMFan]

on SOFA: The status of dependents is in the passport or on some other document, which is what ends up as a SOFA stamp but this depends on each country.

Keep in mind the stamp is only a means of quickly and conveniently identifying those with SOFA status. The legal basis for the SOFA protections would be contained in the SOFA itself. Should it come down to it in some sort of judicial process, the stamp would mean very little. Both governments would look at the SOFA itself and who it identifies as being entitled to protections.

[Herk Driver]

Keep in mind the stamp is only a means of quickly and conveniently identifying those with SOFA status. The legal basis for the SOFA protections would be contained in the SOFA itself. Should it come down to it in some sort of judicial process, the stamp would mean very little. Both governments would look at the SOFA itself and who it identifies as being entitled to protections.

Based on personal experience with Germany, if your dependents are not command sponsored then they are tourists and there are rules on length of stay. Max of 90 days at a time within the Schengen area. I can't remember how long they have to leave for but google is your friend.

For example, once the military member departs the country for PCS or 365 (without a follow on back to Germany) then your dependents have 90 days to leave. Going to another Schengen country for a few days and coming back does not count ( happened to the spouse of a friend of mine). She was detained by the Germans, given a limited amount of time to get HHGs packed and sent on her way, but only after threats to prosecute.

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[TMFan]

Based on personal experience with Germany, if your dependents are not command sponsored then they are tourists and there are rules on length of stay. Max of 90 days at a time within the Schengen area. I can't remember how long they have to leave for but google is your friend.

For example, once the military member departs the country for PCS or 365 (without a follow on back to Germany) then your dependents have 90 days to leave. Going to another Schengen country for a few days and coming back does not count ( happened to the spouse of a friend of mine). She was detained by the Germans, given a limited amount of time to get HHGs packed and sent on her way, but only after threats to prosecute.

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Great info. Just to clarify, my comments on the SOFA issue are an attempt to address only the criminal jurisdiction element. I assume that's what di1630's concern was.

[Bandit6139]

Headed to Yokota with the fam, and I've got mixed messages concerning No-Fee (official) passports. Do I need one as well? We've got them for the kid and wife, but I was under the impression that all I needed was my Military ID and orders. Thanks.

p.s. We've got tourist passports for everyone.

[di1630]

You should get a Brown official passport. Your rip should have the info on it.

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[Champ Kind]

You'll need it for your job as well, not just PCSing there.

[brabus]

You definitely do not need it to PCS to/from Japan, however as Champ said, you may very well need it for work trips. Your Mil ID and orders is all the customs guys will want to see; tourists passports with the SOFA thing stapled in them suffices for your family.

[CDAWG]

Just got an opportunity to go on a tail swap tomorrow. Question is, have you ever gone on one without a passport? The deployment manger in our squadron took my civilian one to make a military one. My fingers are crossed my new military and civilian passport are sitting in their office. 

[Orbit]

24 minutes ago, CDAWG said:

Just got an opportunity to go on a tail swap tomorrow. Question is, have you ever gone on one without a passport? The deployment manger in our squadron took my civilian one to make a military one. My fingers are crossed my new military and civilian passport are sitting in their office. 

I don't think i've ever seen anyone send in the blue passport for processing an official use brown passport.  But that being said, check the foreign clearance guide for country specific requirements (you need to be on NIPR).  

[stract]

1 hour ago, Orbit said:

I don't think i've ever seen anyone send in the blue passport for processing an official use brown passport. 

Rescue had to do that in 06 for a short-notice POTUS support tasking.  We sent someone TDY to the State Dept to hand walk our paperwork through to get the brown passports on 24-hr turn around.  Since most folks already had a tourist (blue) passport, we sent those along in lieu of a notarized birth certificate.  Since that experience everyone's been required to get a brown passport as part of their inprocessing checklist.

Edited April 3, 2016 by stract

[HossHarris]

Blue=tourist

brownish red=official

black=diplomatic

 

no such thing as a "military" passport. If you can speak state department things will go smoother-ish. 

[herkbum]

I always carried all of my passports when traveling, still do. Would typically use blue passport when on personal travel and the others when on official travel. When I worked at an Embassy, I always used my black passport when traveling to/from/within my assigned country.

[ThreeHoler]

I always carried all of my passports when traveling, still do. Would typically use blue passport when on personal travel and the others when on official travel. When I worked at an Embassy, I always used my black passport when traveling to/from/within my assigned country.

This can cause big problems if you wind up detained OR if a border agent happens to see multiple passports.

Never take your blue passport when on official travel. Never take your official passport on personal travel.

[herkbum]

I always carried all of my passports when traveling, still do. Would typically use blue passport when on personal travel and the others when on official travel. When I worked at an Embassy, I always used my black passport when traveling to/from/within my assigned country.

This can cause big problems if you wind up detained OR if a border agent happens to see multiple passports.

Never take your blue passport when on official travel. Never take your official passport on personal travel.

Having them and presenting them are 2 different things.

[Lord Ratner]

6 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

This can cause big problems if you wind up detained OR if a border agent happens to see multiple passports.

Never take your blue passport when on official travel. Never take your official passport on personal travel.

I have the exact opposite experience. No border agent will be confused by someone with an official/diplomatic passport also having a tourist passport. You don't present them both, but having both has never caused a problem for me.

 

Now, there are cases of border agents being very interested in the visas contained within the other passport. If you are going to a country with such concerns, carrying only one is prudent. Not sure if they still do it, but you used to be able to get a second passport if your travel involved Israel and certain Middle Eastern countries, to keep the visas separate.

[M2]

10 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

This can cause big problems if you wind up detained OR if a border agent happens to see multiple passports.

Never take your blue passport when on official travel. Never take your official passport on personal travel.

I've been carrying two passports (tourist and official) for years now and have yet to have a problem other than remembering which one I used to enter the country...

[Lord Ratner]

This can cause big problems if you wind up detained OR if a border agent happens to see multiple passports.

Never take your blue passport when on official travel. Never take your official passport on personal travel.

I've been carrying two passports (tourist and official) for years now and have yet to have a problem other than remembering which one I used to enter the country...

This can cause big problems if you wind up detained OR if a border agent happens to see multiple passports.

Never take your blue passport when on official travel. Never take your official passport on personal travel.

I have the exact opposite experience. No border agent will be confused by someone with an official/diplomatic passport also having a tourist passport. You don't present them both, but having both has never caused a problem for me.

 

Now, there are cases of border agents being very interested in the visas contained within the other passport. If you are going to a country with such concerns, carrying only one is prudent. Not sure if they still do it, but you used to be able to get a second passport if your travel involved Israel and certain Middle Eastern countries, to keep the visas separate.

Exactly. Thinking about it a bit more, the real threat would be two civilian passports. The circumstances for having two are very rare, and I can see a border agent getting spun up. But one red and one blue? No issues.

[mcbush]

On 4/4/2016 at 5:14 PM, Lord Ratner said:

Not sure if they still do it, but you used to be able to get a second passport if your travel involved Israel and certain Middle Eastern countries, to keep the visas separate.

Israel actually doesn't even stamp passports these days, they just give out little cards. Haven't had an issue with it in my relatively short flying career (since 2013).

[CDAWG]

Just got an opportunity to go on a tail swap tomorrow. Question is, have you ever gone on one without a passport? The deployment manger in our squadron took my civilian one to make a military one. My fingers are crossed my new military and civilian passport are sitting in their office. 

I don't think i've ever seen anyone send in the blue passport for processing an official use brown passport.  But that being said, check the foreign clearance guide for country specific requirements (you need to be on NIPR).  

Wanted to give a follow up for what happened. I did go on the Tailswap, fantastic time btw! I took your advice and looked at the requirements for the countries we were traveling through or could possibly land due to diverting. All the countries we traveled through required a DoD ID card and NATO orders. Had any of the following countries we could possibly land at require a passport then I wouldn't have been able to go. We looked through the foreign clearance guide of all the countries to determine the entrance requirements. I'm sure some of you wouldn't have taken that risk but it worked out in my favor and am glad I got to go.

[Duck]

Question for the masses. Wife is dragging me and the kids on a cruise to the US Virgin Islands, Bahamas and Tortula (sp?). My blue personal passport has expired but I still have a good Red passport which I have never had to use. The cruise says you need a passport or birth certificate/ID. Any problem using my Red passport... page 27 says "The bearer is abroad on an official assignment for the United States government."


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[fire4effect]

13 minutes ago, Duck said:

Question for the masses. Wife is dragging me and the kids on a cruise to the US Virgin Islands, Bahamas and Tortula (sp?). My blue personal passport has expired but I still have a good Red passport which I have never had to use. The cruise says you need a passport or birth certificate/ID. Any problem using my Red passport... page 27 says "The bearer is abroad on an official assignment for the United States government."


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I've been told the red passport is for official government business only just as it says. But granted that's my organization. ***break*** I think the other location is Tortuga. According to Captain Sparrow it's a partying place.

[panchbarnes]

Some countries require official visa for official passport, so if your visa doesn't match the passport type it *may* cause an issue.  Also if you get pulled into the secondary, you might have to explain to Customs, State Dept, Embassy, and first O-6 in chain why you are using USG passport for personal travel.  I want to say if you are traveling on official passport, you are supposed to put in for country clearance via the GCC to the local embassy.  I'm not smart on the country status of those places you mentioned.

not worth it man...

[M2]

Pull the Foreign Clearance Guides for each country you'll be stopping in, it'll give you the leave requirements for each to include what passports/visas may be needed.

Also remember you need to put in an APACS request for the trip, even if it's leave.

Cheers!  M2