Unprofessional relationship

[brabus]

There is no fvcking way they can just ship someone off to basic for doing something they didn't like that wasn't against the rules. I don't care how much your cadre disapproves of dating an officer or whatever, they cannot just ship you off to basic b/c of their disagreement. They can give you a shitty rating, but as long as you do nothing directly against the rules, they can't do shit else.

[Herk Driver]

OK shenanigans what reg if any did your Cadre cite? I'm sure by now you've had a chance to ask.

When I was a cop, we had an E-7, in our unit, that was married to an O-4, in another unit.

Those rules have changed somewhat over the years, but I'd like to see the AFI that states that a cadet (USAFA, ROTC, whatever) cannot date a Lt.

[Guest Shenanigans]

Wow, I had no idea this topic generated so much discussion, I appreciate all of the answers though.

The cadre members don't hate me, they are just extremely anal, and generally overbearing. They cited the fraternization regulation stating that after contracting, all cadets are considered enlisted personnel, and therefore upon my commissioning I would be dating an enlisted person.

I have busted my ass to keep this on the down low, and most cadets do not even know that we are dating. The ones that do know are our friends.

With our past cadre, it was no big deal. As long as there weren't any complaints of favoritism, chain of command etc, you were set. With the new cadre, if there is some sort of reg out there even remotely relevant, they will grill you on it.

PS- The only reason the cadre know about our dating is because of a d-bag cadet that sits in the cadre office and gossips like a .

Anyways, I am not going to post a pic (sorry M2), because that is kind of creepy, but I assure you she is worth it. I am not going to break up with her, so now I just have to play the system.

Again, thank you to everyone who has posted, I really appreciate it!

[brabus]

after contracting, all cadets are considered enlisted personnel

That's an incredibly lame excuse at best. Cadets are FAR more civilians than they are military. Sure you contract and say you'll be going to basic if you fvck up for whatever reason, but are you getting any military benefits...i.e. health, BAH, BAS, etc? No. Are you getting E-2 (or whatever) pay? No. Sure you get a cool ID card and can get on base and use the Class Six, but that's it. IMO, that does not make you the same as an "actual" enlisted person, whether AD or guard. They are cadets, NOT A1Cs. There's a reason they're called cadets, put their "rank" on all the paperwork as "cadet", etc. That's bullshit and you should call them on it if it really progresses.

[M2]

Anyways, I am not going to post a pic (sorry M2), because that is kind of creepy, but I assure you she is worth it.

Nothing creepy about it, just wanted to know what all the commotion is about. Hell, you could've posted a pic of any old tart off the Internet, how in the hell would any of us know?

Anyhow, I guess a lot has changed in the last 20+ years since I was an AFROTC cadet. Shit, no one ever gave us ID cards (had one from the Reserves); and no one in our cadre gave a rat's ass as to who we were banging, as long as said action took place outside the Det (and it didn't always).

But as you said, you're not breaking up with her, so you will learn a very valuable lesson that will serve you well in your career--how to get past dumbfuck policies and shoeclerks and focus on what's important. Just don't get caught.

Cheers! M2

[Guest Shenanigans]

just wanted to know what all the commotion is about.

I didn't want to post a picture initially, because our relationship is so much stronger than just sexuality...but if you insist.

Before you ask, yes she does meet weight standards, barely. Now do you all see what I am trying to protect?

[Guest Laminar Flow]

oooh what a hottie.

But seriously, no matter what she looks like - you guys should be together until you choose you don't want to be. It is not the Cadre's decision.

YAY

[The Kayla]

I know that ROTC and OTS are two different things..

There were a few guys in my DH's OTS class that where priors dating girls in the AF.. and I think* that they had a brief on it.. to either hurry up and get married or to end the relationship..

[Guest jojo61397]

OK, are you casual LT? Are you going to be at the Det after you graduate, or are you moving to another base? Reason why I ask is-- if you are PCSing to another base, you are no longer under the jurisdiction of the ROTC cadre. There are no regulations stating you can't date a cadet as an Lt. You aren't even close in the chain of command-- so I would just keep it down low for awhile, then talk to your commander when you get to your first base, if you continue to have issues with it. I assure you that he'll probably say, so what. There just getting in your chili because they can-- part of the hazing thing. When you graduate they aren't going to care.

[Guest Shenanigans]

I wont be a casual Lt, and I am not too worried about how all of this will impact me. I know AD folks have things like deployments, missions, and fighting a war to think about...so dating a cadet will not even register on their radar. However, my only concern is how this might impact my girlfriend. Once I'm gone, I don't want the cadre to try and push her around and feed her BS, and I especially don't want her commander's ranking to suffer.

I have a feeling that when the gossip fags commission in a few days, all of this will sort of vanish, and the cadre will completely forget about it. That's what I am hoping for anyways.

Cheers!

[Guest MNNCO]

I wont be a casual Lt, and I am not too worried about how all of this will impact me. I know AD folks have things like deployments, missions, and fighting a war to think about...so dating a cadet will not even register on their radar. However, my only concern is how this might impact my girlfriend. Once I'm gone, I don't want the cadre to try and push her around and feed her BS, and I especially don't want her commander's ranking to suffer.

I have a feeling that when the gossip fags commission in a few days, all of this will sort of vanish, and the cadre will completely forget about it. That's what I am hoping for anyways.

Cheers!

Why not talk to a JAG lawyer? They should be the last word on this. Nothing will get the Cadre's attention like a call from a JAG. Unless of course you WANT to avoid a JAG Lawyer

[Guest jojo61397]

I wont be a casual Lt, and I am not too worried about how all of this will impact me. I know AD folks have things like deployments, missions, and fighting a war to think about...so dating a cadet will not even register on their radar. However, my only concern is how this might impact my girlfriend. Once I'm gone, I don't want the cadre to try and push her around and feed her BS, and I especially don't want her commander's ranking to suffer.

I have a feeling that when the gossip fags commission in a few days, all of this will sort of vanish, and the cadre will completely forget about it. That's what I am hoping for anyways.

Cheers!

Your probably right. Once your gossipers are gone, I think it will probably vanish. Plus the nice thing about dating-- plausible deniability.

[Guest Shenanigans]

Plus the nice thing about dating-- plausible deniability.

Exactly. If it comes down to it I will say "prove that we are dating."

As for a JAG, I think that would just elevate this to a whole different level than I want to deal with.

[Guest MNNCO]

Exactly. If it comes down to it I will say "prove that we are dating."

As for a JAG, I think that would just elevate this to a whole different level than I want to deal with.

Be very careful. If they pointly ask you and you lie about it then all sorts of things can happen and none of them are good. And you definitly don't want to find yourself making a false official statement. It's usually the cover-up where people get nailed.

[Guest armygrunt]

Hello: This is my first post to this forum but I’ve been reading it for about 2 weeks now. I’m in the Army Guard though at one time my eyes kept me from flying with the Air Force. That’s the way it goes. I do hope to get my license someday. On the topic of unprofessional relationships I would like to give an Army perspective. We deal with very much the same issues that the Air Force and other services do. What makes it tough is the deployment tempo that has been commonplace over the last few years. My current deployment has lasted over a year and I should be home this summer. Some of my fellow soldiers are on second and third deployments of a year minimum each. While most of the time people don’t care who’s sleeping with whom, we do care when we are told to do repeat deployments while others don’t leave the country. Some ARE seeing the upper echelon in the states. Again that’s the way it goes. By now about 80 percent of the Army Guard has deployed at one time or another. Most who haven’t are the new soldiers right out of AIT (advanced individual training after basic) and the ones who haven’t deployed are starting to stand out. You can just look at the right sleeve for the combat patch. I know an individual in the Ohio Guard who is scheduled to return to Iraq at the end of this year and he will likely end up divorced as a result. In fact a number of individuals here right now are concerned they will get served as soon as they legally can be after returning to the states. That is a result of nearly 2 years away from home and it is hard to convey to most the grind of daily patrols outside the wire. We’ve all lost people we know and I’ll admit our tolerance isn’t very high right about now. The bottom line is if you wear the uniform and choose to get involved with a more senior member (whether you met as cadets or started the relationship later) be it enlisted or officer then you should work extra hard to carry your weight throughout your career. Especially when the couple is a number of grades apart. The good news is most of the regs dealing with this issue in all the services seem to give considerable latitude to the leadership to determine what is unprofessional. The bad news is most of the regs dealing with this issue in all the services seem to give considerable latitude to the leadership to determine what is unprofessional. One more thing. I will admit that I’m a little concerned when I’m guessing an officer with over 20 years service is asking someone to post a personal picture on an open forum and whether or not the picture is of your girlfriend some one is put up to public display without their consent. That said I hope everyone gets home safe and thanks for covering our back.

[Chuck17]

Army guys have no sense of humor...

Id avoid the JAG thing, but its always an option.

Here's my take, again...

I graduated 2 years ahead of my wife. She was a cadet for a full 4 semesters prior to graduation and pinning on. I was a butter bar UPT grad when I returned to the Detachment for the first time. We went to a detachment dining out. Together. I got tanked and told UPT stories and talked with my hands and was loud and had a great time. I also got told I was very full of myself and that I 'should keep my ego in check' by the Det commander. "Noted" was my one word reply as I turned my back and continued talking nice and loud.

Like I care what some LRS-LtCol-gumshoe thinks about my ego, as if her words would suddenly change me. Yeah, right.

My wife's commanders ranking didnt suffer. Her commander didnt say one word to me the rest of the night, never said anything to my wife. Nothing happened. They shouldnt stop you from dating an officer, especially if you were once cadets together prior to one of you comissioning. It happens all the time. If they try to, they've got serious issues... maybe they need a good deployment to the Deid to straighten them out.

Chuck

[Guest Shenanigans]

armygrunt- I respect your service, and I do think it is unfair that some folks use relationships to dodge deployments. My girlfriend and I will never be more than 1 grade apart, if even that. We also are fully willing to deploy, together if possible, separate if not. We are not asking anyone to sacrifice more for us or give us special treatment. We just want the cadre to quit trying to mess with our personal lives, and to quit making up regulations to scare cadets.

Chuck, I really appreciate all of the advice and guidance you have offered. It is great to hear from an officer that dealt with the same thing before, and to know that it can work.

I am fully confident that this will all disappear soon, especially since I will be an extended cadet this year. Again, thank you for all of the responses!

[Herk Driver]

Be very careful. If they pointly ask you and you lie about it then all sorts of things can happen and none of them are good. And you definitly don't want to find yourself making a false official statement. It's usually the cover-up where people get nailed.

If they directly ask you about it you are under no obligation to answer them. Who you are dating (in this situation) is a personal matter. Unless they are reading you your rights, due to the fact that they have a suspicion of you violating some AFI (based on prior conversations you've had), then avoid the topic and tell them you'd rather not talk about your personal life. If they get to the point they read you your rights, then you should asking for a lawyer anyway.

[brabus]

Herk has a really good point. You don't have to say shit about this to them. As long as you don't give them ammo, they don't have proof of it...and gossipy douche bags aren't proof. It's hard to say "I don't want to talk about my personal life outside of ROTC" or something like that to your CC, but you are completely within your rights to do so. It won't get to the reading your rights stage...no way, they don't have anything on you for busting any AFIs. And even if they did it anyways, it'd pretty much be harassment...and I doubt they want to ruin their career over who you are or aren't dating.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

We also are fully willing to deploy, together if possible, separate if not. We are not asking anyone to sacrifice more for us or give us special treatment.

For now.

[The Kayla]

I'm with Rainman on this...

for right now, you both are OK with being deployed, together or seperate, give it time to where you have a family or something like that... things will change....

[Guest jojo61397]

I'm with Rainman on this...

for right now, you both are OK with being deployed, together or seperate, give it time to where you have a family or something like that... things will change....

Been there done that, Rainman and Kayla are absasmurfly right. The first three years in the military I spent separated from my husband. The last two years we were stationed together. I thought I would be fine deploying, or having him deployed while I stayed behind, because we were fine the first three years. I wasn't fine. I ended up exiting stage right, when I got voluntold a remote to Korea. I had no obligation to stay in the military at that point and every reason to get out. I got a completely different prespective when I started wanting to have kids. And now with my son, kids and the military don't mix. I can't imagine being AD with my son right now.

And if you are both aircrew in most airframes (and this is location dependent-- especially combat deployments), they will not deploy to the same base.

[Guest armygrunt]

Army guys have no sense of humor...

We do have a sense of humor. It's what keeps us going over here. We're just a little twisted for this forum The Army life over here is like one long year in deer camp. We have a lot of guy's wearing the same uniform for a week at a time while carrying high powered weapons and here the deer shoot back. All we lack is alcohol. Well most of the troops follow the no alcohol rule. I haven't had too many problems with my troops fortunately. I do agree to a point that egos be kept in check and at the same time a trip to the 2 way live fire range will be an eye opener for those who haven't been. Without a doubt pilots carry with them a lot of responsibility but in my mind the 20 year old E-4 manning the .50 cal in the humvee turret has every bit as much responsibility. He has to make shoot/no shoot calls every second he's on the road. I've seen first hand what can happen if he gets it wrong. Remember a boring day in the sandbox is a good day. It means nobody got hurt.

[Guest armygrunt]

Wow. I can't believe it's been almost a 10 months since the last to reply to this post. So how did everybody's story turn out? Did Shennanigan marry his sweetheart. Did the COL in Minnesota conceal his time with the LT AND keep her home. Like sands through the hourglass so are the days of our lives. Who says we have no sense of humor?

[M2]

And, most importantly, does Shennanigan have any more pics of his babe?

Cheers! M2