Distinguished Graduate (DG) from ROTC

[Guest twood]

There is this rumor going around in ROTC land that once your AD, the only thing that is looked at from your ROTC days, as far as OPRs and stuff like that, is whether or not you graduated as a DG from your detachment. Is there any truth to this, or is it a fairy tale?

[Guest Dactyl]

DG from Field Training and DG from ROTC are two different things. As far as I know, the only two things that you keep with you from ROTC is the detachment DG award and the detachment blue chip award. Not sure what the blue chip award is but it's not as prestigious as the DG award if that makes any sense.

[backseatdriver]

Blue Chip is basically a leg up for applying to AFIT. It basically guarantees you an AFIT slot, assuming the needs of the AF don't require you elsewhere. At least that's how I understand it, I didn't get one, so I'm not too concerned with its details.

And yes, ROTC DG is the only thing that follows you - no one cares if you were cadet wing commander or not. Of course, if you meet your Major board and the best thing you have going for you is a DG from ROTC 8 years ago, you probably have some issues.

[WHAP]

DG from ROTC will help later on, its one more bullet for the major board, but if thats all you did, then like the man said, you got issues.

As far as the near future, being DG doesnt help you do anything in the UPT world, nobody asks and nobody cares. At least, im my experience.

[HerkDerka]

Dude

DG will not help you on OPRs. Like the man said, "What happens in ROTC, stays in ROTC"

Think of it this way. On an OPR, boards want to know what you're doing NOW. They already know what you did in ROTC.

Backseat-

No it doesn't dude. DG is a nice thing. But when a rater looks at your bullets, he doesn't care about what you DID. He cares about what you are doing now.

And a reality check for all of you. No one puts DG on their bullets for their Major Board. If you do that, expect to remain a captain for awhile. Like I said, they doesn't care! They want to know how you have ensured mission completion and saved the AF money.

HD

[Bergman]

Originally posted by HercDriver24:

DG will not help you on OPRs. Like the man said, "What happens in ROTC, stays in ROTC"

Think of it this way. On an OPR, boards want to know what you're doing NOW. They already know what you did in ROTC.

Backseat-

No it doesn't dude. DG is a nice thing. But when a rater looks at your bullets, he doesn't care about what you DID. He cares about what you are doing now.

And a reality check for all of you. No one puts DG on their bullets for their Major Board. If you do that, expect to remain a captain for awhile. Like I said, they doesn't care! They want to know how you have ensured mission completion and saved the AF money.

HD

I've got the waive the BS flag on this one. Everything you said in that post is DEAD wrong! I have been involved with several wing-level PRF reviews (getting them ready to send to AFPC for the board), worked in the OPR shop at a couple of places, and have seen many of my friends' PRFs (for Major). I couldn't disagree more with your statements.

If you are a DG AT ANYTHING, it is a big deal. It WILL be on your PRF for Major. If it's not, then you're an idiot for not listing it.

By definition, Distinguished Graduate marks a person in the TOP 10% in a competetive environment. To earn it is a huge statement of a person's future capability, which is what promotion boards are looking for.

[HerkDerka]

Allow me to waive the bullshit flag right back.

We are not talking about DGs on active duty, those are AWESOME for your PRF. We are talking about ROTC DGs. Now I never said "don't list it" but my point is that the board doesn't care. They'd rather see a DG out of SOS.

I have been involved with several wing-level PRF reviews (getting them ready to send to AFPC for the board), worked in the OPR shop at a couple of places

That has nothing to do with what the board is looking for. You weren't working for the board and you weren't there when they made their selections. They want to see what you have done to accomplish the mission and to save money. Period.

To earn it is a huge statement of a person's future capability, which is what promotion boards are looking for.

Please tell me you're not that idealistic.

HD

[Guest SnakeT38]

DG from anything in ROTC last about 10 minutes

after you get your first ID card.

[Bergman]

Originally posted by HercDriver24:

We are not talking about DGs on active duty, those are AWESOME for your PRF. We are talking about ROTC DGs. Now I never said "don't list it" but my point is that the board doesn't care. They'd rather see a DG out of SOS.

They are the same thing! If you are a DG from ROTC it should be listed on your commissioning paperwork/report of training that FOLLOWS YOU ON TO ACTIVE DUTY! My records STILL contain some of my ROTC paperwork, and I would be you dollars to doughnuts that if I had been a DG it would be listed.

That has nothing to do with what the board is looking for. You weren't working for the board and you weren't there when they made their selections. They want to see what you have done to accomplish the mission and to save money. Period.

You're right - I wasn't working for a board. But I was working for the guy who gave out the DPs and Ps prior to meeting the board! If you make the cut to DP at the wing level, you will get promoted. And DG, in any formal training course, was looked at very favorably in my experience.

Please tell me you're not that idealistic.

HD

[HerkDerka]

Bergman you are completley missing my point. I agree with you on many aspects, but I disagree on the main point.

While I agree that you should list a DG from ROTC (It can't possibly hurt you) my point is that it has very very little bearing.

Think of it in these terms:

There are two guys up for promotion. They have the same amount of flight hours, ribbons, both great PRFs. One has a DG from ROTC and hasn't done shit since. The other led a formation of C-130s on a high-vis, time sensitive airdrop mission to resupply an unconventional force that had been surrounded. The DG bullet shows you can kiss ass. The airdrop bullet shows you are:

1) Knowledgable - An expert in your MWS trusted with high priority missions.

2) A Leader - You can lead a flight of aircraft on a difficult combat mission as opposed to a flight of cadets around a drill pad.

3) Worth It - The AF is reaping REAL WORLD benefits on their investment in you and could benefit from further investment (hint hint).

Now which one do you honestly think they will pick?

My point is that DG shows no potential on any scale except the past. Does anyone really believe that ROTC is "leadership training"? Like I said, it CANNOT hurt to put it down. However the board isn't interested in what you did seven years ago. They want to see what you have done lately. The bullets that show you're getting the mission done and saving the AF time and money are the ones they are looking for.

By the way, this is a good discussion. It's been awhile since we had one of these.

HD

[ 08. April 2005, 23:01: Message edited by: HercDriver24 ]

[HerkDerka]

Ranger you weren't hearing me bro.

I'm not talking about being a lead-qualified pilot. I'm talking about being the leader of a high-vis real world mission. One instance.

Being able to post a huge combat accomplishment and showing mission completion and combat leadership is exactly what a board is looking for.

Now I also disagree with your Form 8 statement. Yes, your qualification isn't an ENORMOUS player, but showing skill in your profession is always good. For example, evaluator experience, WIC anything like that is a great boost. Mainly because you have a lot of experience and the board sees that it would benefit the AF to promote you so you can use that experience at the more than just the execution level.

It all comes back to my previous statement, the boards are looking for mission execution and saving money.

HD

[Bergman]

Originally posted by HercDriver24:

DG will not help you on OPRs.

HD - That statement is the main focus of my argument. Your original post, quoted above, was a very broad and untrue statement. I agree that if you're hanging your hat on ROTC DG to help make Major, you've probably not been using your time wisely. My argument is that ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL, being a DG from any formal program will help you get promoted.

OPRs and PRFs are intended to differentiate the ratee from everyone else, right? Thus wanting to have all these cool 'flight lead' and 'combat sortie' bullets. The problem is that it's too easy to pencil whip being SNACKO into the greatest OPR bullet on earth. DG, on the other hand, is a cut-and-dried metric. There isn't room for interpretation there...DG=top 10%, with no BS involved (in theory).

Again, I don't necessarily agree with the way DG is made such a big deal, but I want to get the point across to the youngsters out there that DG IS a big deal and they shouldn't pass up an opportunity to earn it. It can only help.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

HD Dude Bro Chief Man Hombre,

Rangerbob is correct, the board doesn't give a sh!t about how great a pilot is at his job. You will be lucky to have anyone on your board that is a pilot. Assuming there is a pilot in the group of people ranking the stack of records where your's resides, you will be EXTREMELY lucky if that pilot is familiar with your aircraft or even your mission. A lot also depends on the initial instructions given by the board president before the teams start looking at records. If they are told to look for and value combat experience or IP qualifications or FWIC...what you say is true. If they are not told to look for those things, it's like it never happened.

Bergman gets a shack. The only person that matters when it comes to knowing your flying skills is your Wg/CC. He/She will write your PRF. DP or P amy spell your fate for promotion and PME. The board will just look at your records. The pencil neck booger eating kicker of box, eater of paste, cobbler of shoe with a DG from SOS will stand out on the board far above the FWIC graduate who can fly the crap out of his jet but has never taken the time to care about things like DG from anything. Everyone looking at the records knows what DG is. Very few have even the faintest knowledge of what FWIC is.

Fact, period dot.

[Guest Jimbo2552]

Is there still a ROTC DG award for commissioning seniors for that AY or did that get replaced with the Conference Award they had in DC back in March? I know that it looks like they axed blue chip as well...

[Guest XQSME]

Is there still a ROTC DG award for commissioning seniors for that AY or did that get replaced with the Conference Award they had in DC back in March?

Like FallingOsh said the DG award still exists. The idea for the conference in DC was for the Top senior to go but that is not how some dets did it. Ours put cadets name in a hat who wanted to go and drew the winner from that. The idea behind it was to only send someone who really wanted to go. It was during our spring break and I really didn't want to give that up for a conference.

2 on wallers comment. How did UPT factor into this?

[Guest Thriller]

From my understanding, the DG still exists. However, from what I've been told, it is basically an "in-house" award.

Recently, prior to the whole "Regular Commission for Everyone", it was my understanding that receiving a DG out of your ROTC Detachment guaranteed you a Regular Commission (while those who did not graduate DG were given Reserve Commissions and had to apply for a Regular one while on AD).

Now that things have changed, we will all receive a Regular Commission upon our commissioning papers being sent to AFPC.

So basically, Yes...the DG is still around and yes you should receive a certificate. Unfortunately, since HQ has taken away the purpose for striving to achieve it, you might as well put it in the circular filing cabinet with the rest of your ROTC awards.

Peace,

THRILLER

[ 09. May 2006, 05:06: Message edited by: Thriller ]

[osulax05]

ROTC DG along with freefall wings, and the marksmanship ribbon from field training are the only things that continue with you once you commission. ROTC DG will appear on your OPR for your first assignment.

[R-Dub]

Originally posted by Thriller:

From my understanding, the DG still exists. However, from what I've been told, it is basically an "in-house" award...So basically, Yes...the DG is still around and yes you should receive a certificate.]

DG is distributed in ROTC exactly like DG is distributed at FT. The top 10% of each commissioning class at each school will get DG similarily to how the top 10% of each flight at FT get DG.

Originally posted by Thriller:

Recently, prior to the whole "Regular Commission for Everyone", it was my understanding that receiving a DG out of your ROTC Detachment guaranteed you a Regular Commission (while those who did not graduate DG were given Reserve Commissions and had to apply for a Regular one while on AD).

Now that things have changed, we will all receive a Regular Commission upon our commissioning papers being sent to AFPC.

Either my Detachment got it wrong or you're mistaken. I've still got a Reserve Commission, as well as other 7 DGs and the other 78 commissionnees with us. Is this going to be the standard later (i.e., next FY) or is this just speculation?

[ 09. May 2006, 10:10: Message edited by: RWaller52 ]

[Guest Hydro130]

RWaller,

I too was under the impression that everyone was now getting regular commissions (I rememeber reading it on af.mil, so it must be true!), although I don't know if/when that started (very recently, regardless).

I was a ROTC DG, and a regular commission dude, but back in 95, the two didn't go hand-in-hand... Each was a separate submission. I honestly only really know that becasue I stayed and did the ADD LT thing the next year and worked that year's packages.

Cheers, Hydro

[Guest Thriller]

RWaller52,

Yup...we are all automatically processed as having a Regular Commission.

Here is where you might be confused. On your commissioning paperwork you will be Reserve Commissioned. Upon commissioning, our paperwork will be sent to AFPC. This is where the automatic switch to Regular Commission will take place.

There is no more competing or applying for the Regular...it's now automatic for everyone.

Peace,

THRILLER

[brabus]

Our NCOs told us the same thing...Waller, you may have still had "Reserve Commission" on your certificate because they didn't have enough time to print up new ones before commissioning. Our NCOs have the "Reserve Commission" certificates for us and are trying to get the "Regular Commission" ones, but if they haven't already gotten them (I don't know) then we're using the other ones at commissioning and will receive the regular ones in the mail. But yes, this is 100% confirmed about regular commissions.

[R-Dub]

Sounds good to me. I know everyone is supposed to get an Active Commission, but the amount of paperwork I got at commissioning stating Reserve had me pretty confused and I just figured we missed the boat. I'll call the ol' Det and see if they are in the same shoes of just gettin' the correct paperwork/authorization.

[brabus]

Talked to my NCO today...apparently most of us (FY06) grads will be technically commissioned as reserve, but when we get to our first base (i.e. ASBC for many of us) they will submit corrections and our commissions will be changed into regular ones. So don't be alarmed b/c commissioning paperwork at the Det says reserve...it'll all be changed here in a few months.

[Guest msmith16]

This may sound stupid, but its coming (sts) from someone who isn't in the system. What are the differences between a reserve and a regular. You're still on AD either way right? Since there was competition for regular comissions, I assume they're better, but what are the advantages? Thanks in advance for any explanations.

-Striker

EDIT: Spellinging

[ 09. May 2006, 18:48: Message edited by: Striker 21 ]

[HerkDerka]

To straighten this thread out:

The National Defense Authorization Act of 2005 mandated that all new commissionees in every service be commissioned as regular officers.

All AD officers with a reserve commission must be transitioned to a regular commission as of 1 May 2006.

AFPC has approved the transition lists and is updating everyone in MilPDS next week.

The reason they did this is to enhance retention.

In the old days AFA graduates were commissioned regular and ROTC grads were given reserve commissions and then offered a regular commission when they pinned on major.

The draw down after the Cold War resulted in ALL new commissionees being commissioned in the reserves and they served on the Active Duty Roster.

This gave Big Blue the legal authority to kick young officers out of service as needed to meet any force reduction requirements.

FYI for AD officers, there is no ADSC for your regular commission, you cannot turn it down, and there is no new oath of office. Basically AFPC is just going into your records and changing your commission status.

The benefit to a regular commission (for you) is that it's like military tenure. A reserve officer on the Active Duty Roster can only legally serve for 20 years. For a regular officer you can stay in as long as your rank allows (i.e. O-6 = 30 years).

Regarding ROTC DGs getting regular commissions, I never heard of it. The whole purpose of the reserve commission was to keep all new officers in a "fireable" status.

If you have .mil access you can read more at:

https://gum.afpc.randolph.af.mil/cgi-bin/as...hp?p_faqid=6347

Basically this is a good thing because it's getting rid of a process born in 1947 that doesn't make sense today.

HD

[ 09. May 2006, 18:53: Message edited by: HerkDerka ]