Distinguished Graduate (DG) from ROTC

[Bergman]

I think that DG out of ROTC or USAFA are some of the only ones worth recognizing. Each indicates exceptional performance over a lengthy period of time. Plus, pretty much everyone is on a level playing field from the start. These two factors give a better look at an individual and take a lot of the guess-work out of the equation. This is why an ROTC DG will follow you but one from Field Training will not.

I can do without other DGs. Either the program is too short for a quality evaluation or there aren't enough people contributing to said evaluation.

So you're saying that a person who is studying Electrical Engineering while in ROTC is "on a level playing field from the start" with a person who is trying to get a BA in Art History?? I humbly disagree. The time required for different degrees is going to determine how much time is available for ROTC, and I think we can all agree that time spent in the det is a huge factor in DG/commander's rank/etc, not to mention having more free time to work on improving fitness and a higher GPA as well due to the easier coursework, both of which factor into those rankings.

What other DGs would you do without? WIC? UPT? FTU?

Edited July 15, 2009 by Bergman

[AEWingsMN]

Mine doesn't show up in SURF and I've been to education office/MPF/every other shoe office on base and have been told 69 times that they don't know anything about it and it's someone else's job. I gave up...that was 1.5 yrs ago. Anyone recently get this shit figured out? Will it even make any difference to me? If not, I could care less.

Ok, I didn't ever see this fully answered, so here is EXACTLY what I did to take care of this exact situation.

I took note that people were finding out out that DG wasn't listed on their paperwork when I saw this thread a while back. So, when I actually did recieve DG, I also figured I may as well look into the scenario. Turns out, sure enough, my DG was not recorded in my SURF, while I had a friend from the same Det who had his recorded. Same graduation year, I graduated in Dec, he graduated in May. Only reason I can think of there being a difference is that the Det specifically applied for an extra DG to be awarded for me (and maybe others for all I know), and AETC gave me one. Evidently they have a few left after all the oddball people are added up (IE dets with 22 people getting 2 DGs, but those extra 2 get added into an AFROTC pool for extras). SO maybe mine wasn't recorded cuz i got it that way.

What I did: I took the congratulations letter I got from my Det/CC down to Formal Training (at Sheppard). I asked the guy who worked there how to look it up cuz I couldn't find it anywhere. He said it should be in my Surf. It wasn't. So he went into the system and did this:

In a program called "MILPDS" he went to "Customer Service/Promotions and Testing/Commissioning Agreement/ROTC Code"

He then changed my code to I think it was "Code R". It was a letter or a number, and that is the random letter that is written on the notes I took, so I think that's why I wrote that letter.

That changed my surf report from "4 YR ROTC/FAG" to "DG 4YR ROTC/FAG" (I shit you not, it says FAG after every ROTC graduate's commissioning source).

That is all I think should need to be done. You won't be able to see the update in your surf for a few days because they only process the updates every so often.

Whether or not this will help me in the long run, who knows, am I a tool for doing it? probably, but if it does help, whatever... can it hurt to have it updated, no, and it's probably better to have things be as correct as possible in your history.

Edited October 26, 2009 by AEWingsMN

[killacam]

Most likely the same thing. As a Distinguished Graduate your cadre must submit a specific IMT Form recommending you. You're then racked and stacked and the top 10% of all ROTC commissionees earn the award. It's not a ribbon or anything else, it just goes into your permanent record. This past year there were over 2000 total graduates, so there were around 200 DG's.

So I understand that the award is given out based on a national racking and stacking but is it common/uncommon/impossible for dets with a small number of commissionees (less than 5) to be awarded a DG slot?

[Wolf424]

So I understand that the award is given out based on a national racking and stacking but is it common/uncommon/impossible for dets with a small number of commissionees (less than 5) to be awarded a DG slot?

The way it was 3 or 4 years ago, if your Det commissioned more than 10 cadets, you were guaranteed a DG. If less than 10, it was still possible, but not required. (Asked a buddy of mine, former COC)

[jjfly]

So I understand that the award is given out based on a national racking and stacking but is it common/uncommon/impossible for dets with a small number of commissionees (less than 5) to be awarded a DG slot?

When I commissioned in May, we had 16 Spring plus 3 I think in the fall, and we had 3 DGs from my class. If the commander thinks people really deserve it, he'll fight to get an extra DG or two... like the FTOs do at Field Training w/ their DG and SP slots. I'm not sure if it averages out nationwide or not though.

[jimbobpow13]

So I understand that the award is given out based on a national racking and stacking but is it common/uncommon/impossible for dets with a small number of commissionees (less than 5) to be awarded a DG slot?

If you have less then 10 people graduating then the Det CC can nominate people to go up to a board at the region level. From there they pick who gets DG and who doesn't.

[killacam]

Thanks! Good stuff. I'm assuming they have separate boards for Fall/Spring grads in the same fiscal year?

[GearMonkey]

So you're saying that a person who is studying Electrical Engineering while in ROTC is "on a level playing field from the start" with a person who is trying to get a BA in Art History?? I humbly disagree. The time required for different degrees is going to determine how much time is available for ROTC, and I think we can all agree that time spent in the det is a huge factor in DG/commander's rank/etc, not to mention having more free time to work on improving fitness and a higher GPA as well due to the easier coursework, both of which factor into those rankings.

What other DGs would you do without? WIC? UPT? FTU?

Fair enough.

I do, however, think cadre recognize the difference in degree complexity and take that into account. As with everything, I'm sure some cadres do a better job of it than others. I was a DG as an engineer so I know it can be done. It didn't hurt that most of the non-engineer types were crosstowns and pretty much sucked at life. I can attest to the fact that being involved at the Det does wonders to make up for crappy grades and a mediocre PFT score.

From your list I would absolutely do away with DGs from FTU (for the heavy world at least) and UPT. While UPT is a year long, which would normally make me lean towards a DG program, there is a huge difference in student skill at the outset. A 50 hour C-172 dude will never compete with a 1,000+ hour corporate King Air pilot. Sure everyone kind of normalizes in the end but the corporate dude's awesome scores on early rides are pretty hard to overcome. There is no way a heavy FTU student should ever get recognized as DG. With the limited number of flights and the incredible lack of consistency from one IP to the next there is just no legitimate way to compare students. Fighter guys can probably make a reasonable argument in favor of having DGs since they fly a lot more rides and invest much more time in the program.

I’ll give you WIC. Those dudes have fairly equal experience levels when they start and the class takes enough time that you can compare the students adequately and fairly accurately.

[jjfly]

Thanks! Good stuff. I'm assuming they have separate boards for Fall/Spring grads in the same fiscal year?

No, I'm pretty sure it goes by Fiscal Year. 2 years ago at my det, they had 1 Dec. DG and 1 May DG.

Fair enough.

I do, however, think cadre recognize the difference in degree complexity and take that into account. As with everything, I'm sure some cadres do a better job of it than others. I was a DG as an engineer so I know it can be done. It didn't hurt that most of the non-engineer types were crosstowns and pretty much sucked at life. I can attest to the fact that being involved at the Det does wonders to make up for crappy grades and a mediocre PFT score.

Uhh a lot of it depends on the commander, just like it does for OMs and Pilot selection... you can't say that all take engineering into account (even if they should), or all this AAS is a big plus, etc.

[Radio]

IMO, ROTC DG would be nearly worthless at a Majors board or higher. Your very first opportunity for stratification (My #1/X 2Lts...) will be more important than that.

DG ROTC would be worth something applying to special programs or the AD rated board. That is because for those types of programs, showing potential to succeed in a learning environment would be important. But think about it, how could that possibly be taken seriously for field grade promotion?

Like others said, if you had some series of DGs to write about (UPT DG, ASBC DG, SOS DG, AFIT DG), it could make ONE bullet on a PRF. If you had less than 2 DGs it would make a pretty weak bullet and no matter what, the ROTC DG would have the least impact. Of course, one full line taken up by just "ROTC DG" would be laughable and honestly would hurt your chances of making Major...because whoeever read it would say, "WTF, this is all he/she had? Downgrade!"

If a lot of wing commanders have ROTC DG on their records, it is simply because they continued to perform at a high level. But you're going to have to work your ass off throughout your career, consistently outperform your peers at each level just to be a flying Sq/CC. Then you have to get your school and staff assignments, deploy a few times, and still get lucky to make O-6 or Wing/CC.

Its great you all started off well at ROTC. Yes, you should correct your records if they don't say DG ROTC (and "/F/A/G/", whats that about?). But only let it boost your confidence and don't at all rest on your laurels. I don't think anything shows up for Academy grads on their records except their line number for O-4 or O-5. Should Academy grads be putting on their PRF that they were a Cadet Squadron Commander for a 120 person squadron bigger than most ROTC dets? More than 2 years later, they would be insane to mention it as some sort of credential that shows potential for leadership.

Edited to show "/F/A/G/" instead of "XXXX"

Edited October 29, 2009 by Radio

[tac airlifter]

I was an ROTC DG and it never made it onto my SURF. Guess what? I don't care enough to get the record fixed. Good on you guys for getting DG in any program, but if you think anyone cares once your ceremony is over you are wrong. Consistant strats at home and deployed plus a few real awards and your PRF will be fine. I'm not discouraging anyone with the free time not to fix their record, just illustrating that it really doesn't matter.