Info on Disenrollment from ROTC

[Guest AFROTC CADET]

I cant really give you any foresight on your situation. Ive never heard of anyone in that position before. But as a current 200 I can definitely attest to the fact that EAs are hard to come by. Our APAS told us that AFROTC has about 400-500 more AS 200s than EAs to give out this year. So they're getting rid of anyone who doesnt meet standards just to get down to the right number.

Just throwing this out there, but what about OTS. If they don't have an EA for you and dont make you enlist, I guess that option is there.

OTS is probably too selective for me to get into. especially with the hit my GPA took. as far as EA slots go...i make standards, the question is....would HQ let a 400 take an EA slot away from a 200?

[Guest RRocket]

OTS is probably too selective for me to get into. especially with the hit my GPA took. as far as EA slots go...i make standards, the question is....would HQ let a 400 take an EA slot away from a 200?

Look man, the Air Force is axing people left and right and are just looking for reasons to get rid of people right now. That being said I was investigated for disenrollment one year ago and they approved me to stay in. What I did was get letters of rec from every Cadet in my class (300's at that time) and a letter of rec from the teacher whose class I failed. All the teacher wrote was that I tried my hardest or some bullshit, but it helped. Getting a lot of people on your side and who agree that you are an asset to the Air Force is key. The circumstances were different when I was investigated, and the class I failed did not affect my graduation plan, but this is from personal experience and fortunately everything worked out for me.

[Guest AFROTC CADET]

Look man, the Air Force is axing people left and right and are just looking for reasons to get rid of people right now. That being said I was investigated for disenrollment one year ago and they approved me to stay in. What I did was get letters of rec from every Cadet in my class (300's at that time) and a letter of rec from the teacher whose class I failed. All the teacher wrote was that I tried my hardest or some bullshit, but it helped. Getting a lot of people on your side and who agree that you are an asset to the Air Force is key. The circumstances were different when I was investigated, and the class I failed did not affect my graduation plan, but this is from personal experience and fortunately everything worked out for me.

yeah dude. I totally agree. screwing up in ROTC now is NOT a good thing. Question though,

When you were being dis-enrolled, were you able to write a comment? In my case, only my Commander gets to put his two cents in. Fortunately, he is recommending I stay. I like the letter of rec thing you did. I know if did that, I would have overwhelming support. So Did you just turn your letters of rec into your Commander and say "Here you go Sir, please include these in the package?"

I guess I'm just confused on how I would go about submitting letters of rec.

[Guest RRocket]

yeah dude. I totally agree. screwing up in ROTC now is NOT a good thing. Question though,

When you were being dis-enrolled, were you able to write a comment? In my case, only my Commander gets to put his two cents in. Fortunately, he is recommending I stay. I like the letter of rec thing you did. I know if did that, I would have overwhelming support. So Did you just turn your letters of rec into your Commander and say "Here you go Sir, please include these in the package?"

I guess I'm just confused on how I would go about submitting letters of rec.

The Captain who was the "investigation officer" told me I needed to write a statement. And basically I wrote that I wanted to stay for so and so of reasons. I asked about getting recs from other cadets and they said it was fine. I had a stack of them along with my statement, all in AF Memo format, and turned them in as quickly as I could. It is your dis-enrollment you should be able to include any document you think will help you.

Only bad thing about the whole process was that my package was sent in January, and I didn't find out the result until my last final in the middle of May.

[Guest AFROTC CADET]

The Captain who was the "investigation officer" told me I needed to write a statement. And basically I wrote that I wanted to stay for so and so of reasons. I asked about getting recs from other cadets and they said it was fine. I had a stack of them along with my statement, all in AF Memo format, and turned them in as quickly as I could. It is your dis-enrollment you should be able to include any document you think will help you.

Only bad thing about the whole process was that my package was sent in January, and I didn't find out the result until my last final in the middle of May.

Thanks for the help dude. This whole process is killing me. Especially because I will find out about my package AFTER school ends. Any advice on how to stay mentally strong dude?

I am the AAS Training Officer, FTP Commander, and Special Projects Officer. I can't afford to drop the ball.

[Guest RRocket]

Thanks for the help dude. This whole process is killing me. Especially because I will find out about my package AFTER school ends. Any advice on how to stay mentally strong dude?

I am the AAS Training Officer, FTP Commander, and Special Projects Officer. I can't afford to drop the ball.

My thoughts throughout the whole process was that I had done my best and from that point on it was out of my hands. I told myself that even if I do get the boot, I was going to graduate college with a great degree and could make it in life without the Air Force. Keep busy with school, have fun with friends etc. I prayed and just told myself if it is meant to be then it's meant to be and vice versa.

Just do the normal things you do as a student. It is out of your hands now. Good Luck with everything man.

[FalconXtreme]

appreciate your honesty man. Question: My Commander said that 100% I will not graduate in FY11. Now, what do you think about HQ approving me to commission in FY12?

If I have to compete with the 200's for an EA again, so be it. But do you see HQ doing that?

Tricky situation I know.

you might be able to get an extension to fy12. i had 2 cadets in my det last year extend to fy11 bc they couldnt get extensions to fy10(they were supposed to grad in fy09). it does depend on how much ur cadre wants to fight for you tho i.e. how much they like you...

[Guest AFROTC CADET]

you might be able to get an extension to fy12. i had 2 cadets in my det last year extend to fy11 bc they couldnt get extensions to fy10(they were supposed to grad in fy09). it does depend on how much ur cadre wants to fight for you tho i.e. how much they like you...

Falcon Xtreme. Thanks for that. I talked to my CC and he def. wants to fight for me, which I really appreciate. If you dont mind me asking..what was their situation? (or something like it)

Question for all: I am undergoing a "non-investigative" dis-enrollment. i looked up the regs. it sounds worse then a regular investigative disenrollment. is there any difference?

[FalconXtreme]

Falcon Xtreme. Thanks for that. I talked to my CC and he def. wants to fight for me, which I really appreciate. If you dont mind me asking..what was their situation? (or something like it)

Question for all: I am undergoing a "non-investigative" dis-enrollment. i looked up the regs. it sounds worse then a regular investigative disenrollment. is there any difference?

i'm pretty sure it was the case that the dudes changed their majors and needed to extend so the could fit in the new classes that were required.

[Guest AFROTC CADET]

Based on what I have seen I would say 95% chance you are gone no matter what you put together or how hard your cadre fights, because the pencil pushers at Maxwell only care about quantity and checking the boxes. If you can't check the nursing box anymore they won't want to keep you.

That said there is a lot of other ways to lead and serve your country other than being an Air Force officer. The Army, Navy, and Marine Corps don't give a rats ass about whether or not you were disenrolled from AFROTC or not. I currently know 2 Marine Corps officers and a Navy ensign waiting for pilot training who were disenrolled from my det.

Thanks for your honesty. But, i actually have one friend, who did the exact same switch as me, with no problem. Being as ICLS scholarship recipient, I can change my major to what I want. The problem just came down to the number crunch.

Do you have any examples of HQ "pencil-pushing"?

[Guest AFROTC CADET]

Why is going from a Tech to Non-Tech major change so difficult?

Especially if there are people are are majoring in non-tech degrees...

i'm pretty sure it was the case that the dudes changed their majors and needed to extend so the could fit in the new classes that were required.

FalconXtreme,

Were these guys tech majors or non-teach?

[Guest Alphabet soup]

all i can say is bad timing. "Force Management" is here and big blue is looking for ways to shrink our officer numbers. The easiest way is to cut numbers in ROTC and OTS. With how late the timing is with the approval of some of the Force Management measures, the AF knows it can't make a huge impact with FY 2010, so FY 2011 is being very closely looked at for ways to make cuts. Keep fighting if you want, but like I said, bad timing.

I would recommend just moving on. Its getting late in the game and in all honesty, the AF isn't the end all. I've had several friends who got the boot late in their ROTC career and they just spent way too much time trying to fight to get back in. All they really were doing was wasting time that they could have spent looking into another profession that they would probably enjoy.

[Guest AFROTC CADET]

all i can say is bad timing. "Force Management" is here and big blue is looking for ways to shrink our officer numbers. The easiest way is to cut numbers in ROTC and OTS. With how late the timing is with the approval of some of the Force Management measures, the AF knows it can't make a huge impact with FY 2010, so FY 2011 is being very closely looked at for ways to make cuts. Keep fighting if you want, but like I said, bad timing.

I would recommend just moving on. Its getting late in the game and in all honesty, the AF isn't the end all. I've had several friends who got the boot late in their ROTC career and they just spent way too much time trying to fight to get back in. All they really were doing was wasting time that they could have spent looking into another profession that they would probably enjoy.

yeah. bad timing pretty much sums it all up. its just hard to take it all in y'know? but I won't give up until i'm told to. until then ill just keep doing my job. im growing each and every day. God has a plan for me, whether that be USAF or not.

[FalconXtreme]

Why is going from a Tech to Non-Tech major change so difficult?

Especially if there are people are are majoring in non-tech degrees...

FalconXtreme,

Were these guys tech majors or non-teach?

yea they were both non-tech to non-tech

[whall85]

As someone who just finished his 2-year involuntary enlistment, trust me when I say it's very possible...

Edit - OP, If you have specific questions, PM me. I had a feeling making my AFROTC experience public was not the best idea, as the post was worded poorly and easily misinterpreted. jcollins, nothing against your post, but I feel more comfortable talking with the OP mano y mano.

Cheers,

Will

Edited May 12, 2010 by William Hall

[jcollins]

As the Mission Support Group CC, I had no less-than 50 people at any one time working for me.

Are you serious?

For all you cadets, here is a sound piece of advice:

AFROTC is not real. AFROTC is a game. Don't sweat the small stuff. Focus on the big stuff.

College grades are big stuff. College grades will get you dis-enrolled. Failing the PFT is big stuff. Failing the PFT will get you dis-enrolled.

AFROTC positions are small stuff. AFROTC positions are handed out to everyone to give them a chance at "leadership". The people who did the best at these are the ones who did not try to be heroes. Why do you think you have to re-invent the wheel? Trust me. When I did AFROTC, I used to sit back with my cadre (yeah, I was prior-enlisted) and laugh at some of these cadets who would go nuts with this stuff. They all got a rude shock when they entered the real Air Force and figured out that as 2nd Lts they did not know anything. The best cadets were the ones who were humble, had their priorities right and tracked the big stuff.

[Guest AFROTC CADET]

As someone who just finished his 2-year involuntary enlistment, trust me when I say it's very possible...

Edit - OP, If you have specific questions, PM me. I had a feeling making my AFROTC experience public was not the best idea, as the post was worded poorly and easily misinterpreted. jcollins, nothing against your post, but I feel more comfortable talking with the OP mano y mano.

Cheers,

Will

William, I see that you edited your post. Doesnt matter to me what you said. But I'm curious. Can you elaborate on what you mean by "its very possible"?

good news...my cadre have my back, and we'll be finding out very soon. fingers crossed!

[Odium]

As someone who just finished his 2-year involuntary enlistment, trust me when I say it's very possible...

Edit - OP, If you have specific questions, PM me. I had a feeling making my AFROTC experience public was not the best idea, as the post was worded poorly and easily misinterpreted. jcollins, nothing against your post, but I feel more comfortable talking with the OP mano y mano.

Cheers,

Will

I saw your story before you edited it out, I think it's a valuable lesson for future cadets on the dangers of becoming overly fixated on "winning" the ROTC game. I'd suggest leaving it up as a warning for those who may come across this post later and hopefully they'll avoid repeating your mistakes.

[supertrooper44]

I saw your story before you edited it out, I think it's a valuable lesson for future cadets on the dangers of becoming overly fixated on "winning" the ROTC game. I'd suggest leaving it up as a warning for those who may come across this post later and hopefully they'll avoid repeating your mistakes.

Agreed. I thought it was a good lesson for everyone.

[spudsmac]

I looked here an on google but could not find out whether after disenrollment you still have your clearance. I was disenrolled after getting my clearance but it was not for integrity (I don't think HQ or the det looked at it like that at least). I asked one of the NCOs about a JPAS printout today and she said my clearance was revoked since I was out of the program. She said the AF can't have people not in running around with clearances. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

[magnetfreezer]

I looked here an on google but could not find out whether after disenrollment you still have your clearance. I was disenrolled after getting my clearance but it was not for integrity (I don't think HQ or the det looked at it like that at least). I asked one of the NCOs about a JPAS printout today and she said my clearance was revoked since I was out of the program. She said the AF can't have people not in running around with clearances. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

As long as the clearance was issued and not explicity revoked it becomes inactive when you get out - there is no need to know so you don't have a current clearance, but the clearance can be reactivated w/o another investigation if you get a job requiring a clearance within 24 months and your clearance hasn't come up for periodic reinvestigation.

The Air Force Central Adjudication Facility are the ones who have to grant/revoke clearances not AFROTC.

[spudsmac]

As long as the clearance was issued and not explicity revoked it becomes inactive when you get out

And that's the question. I guess on resumes I can put I was adjudicated for one.

[M2]

Do they really adjudicate clearances for AFROTC cadets? I guess collateral ones would make sense, since every officer must have at least a secret clearance; but not TS/SCI...

[Guest Scaredfuzz]

I looked here an on google but could not find out whether after disenrollment you still have your clearance. I was disenrolled after getting my clearance but it was not for integrity (I don't think HQ or the det looked at it like that at least). I asked one of the NCOs about a JPAS printout today and she said my clearance was revoked since I was out of the program. She said the AF can't have people not in running around with clearances. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

"She said the AF can't have people not in running around with clearances"

^ I find this hilarious, just because you have a TS clearance doesn't mean crap. There are clearances and then there is "need to know", all the TS means is if there is something classified TS and your job requires you to know they can tell you, but it doesn't give you permission to walk into an SCIF and just open whatever folder you want and look at it.

[Guest harharhar]

So...

Last August/September, I signed up for AFROTC as an AS250. While filling out the paperwork, I wrote down that I had smoked marijuana 10 times. I did not have a drug problem, no desire to ever smoke again, and this in no way affects me whatsoever, etc. I also have never had any traffic violations or any criminal/legal/financial problems at all. Well my Det commander (my whole cadre was new at the time) signed the paper, "waived" the prior drug use, and said it was all good.

During the past year, I've dedicated 110% of my energy to succeeding in ROTC. I've spent 3+ hours, several times a week, commuting to get to ROTC classes, LLAB, FTP, and whatever extra training I had to attend. Not the bare minimums, but I attended every single event that my schedule allowed me to. About 5-10 times, I've slept on the couch at my detachment so I could be there early enough in the morning for the PFA, or mandatory parade practices because public transportation wasn't open that early. I joined MECT and have gotten over 95 on every PFA. I've gotten 4.0s in every AS class and have a 3.22 GPA overall, with two majors and a minor. I got an EA last spring, likely being ranked towards the top of my class. I won several awards at the end of the year and got DG at Field Training. My PAS told me that what I've done in ROTC was "inspiring" and I know my cadre supports me. I also had to decline an internship last summer, so I could attend Field Training, which pretty much would have been a necessity for me to be competitive in my civilian career field (finance).

Anyway, I drive 4 hours to my Det a few days ago to officially contract. As my NCO is putting together all my paperwork for the enlistment, she realizes that MJ use over 5 times has to be waived by HQ, not the Det commander. So she sends up the packet, I wait around, and my commander makes some phone calls hoping to get it approved the same day, since I'm scheduled for PRK a couple days later, which I can only do after I contract. After waiting around for a couple hours, my commander finally gets a phone call saying that not only was I not getting the waiver approved the same day, but that these waivers are denied 100% of the time, and that I shouldn't have been allowed in the program in the first place. My commander tried explaining my situation but basically got laughed at and told "tough luck".

So, I'm being dissenrolled...

I hope I don't sound like I'm bitching or I'm some douchebag, because I'm not. I'm not even really angry, I'm just pretty much in shock and disbelief at the situation. Is this worth an appeal? If this doesn't work out, do I still have a shot at OTS/Guard/Reserve or will their policy just be the same (I'll try anyway)? Would appreciate comments or suggestions.

Edited August 29, 2011 by harharhar